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2016 Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Next President?  

48 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Vote for your choice for the next President of the United States

    • Hillary Clinton
    • Donald Trump
    • Gary Johnson
    • Jill Stein

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It will probably be revised lower... it always is.

Trump supporters on twitter can't understand the difference between quarter over quarter and year over year growth.


Plus, a lot of the growth (besides changing how GDP is calculated) is folks freaking out over tariffs and buying stuff before prices go up.  I know I did.  Probably a big crash coming when the tariffs kick in and after folks have stocked up.  Hopefully that comes before the midterms, but maybe not.


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Anyway, now you're on a slippery slope because we should ban males under the age of 25 from driving because they present a demonstrated risk to public safety (hence higher insurance premiums for them).

We should also ban seniors from driving.

We should ban any car that is not a volvo (or whatever the safest car is).

All motorcycles should be banned in the interest of safety.

Where do you want to draw the line?  Perhaps IQ tests in order to obtain drivers license?

Traffic signs are green because that is the easiest color to see, so all cars should be green.  Anyone with a red car is a public hazard endangering the lives of others.

Cars that do not look like fish bowls should be banned due to visibility restrictions.

Tinted windows - banned.

I could go on and on and on.  It's a slippery slope with no end.

By the same token  of taking "freedoms" to extremes , we should remove all speed limits  and traffic signs because we shouldn't  interfere with peoples " freedom" to  speed with reckless abandon   or their  "freedom"  to   speed through intersections  with  no consideration of others. We  should be  able to park  anywhere  we  want  and  how we  want. In any society  there  has to be  some reasonable  limits  to   "freedoms"  for the good  of  all. Freedom   is not  total  anarchy  and total  anarchy  grants  no-one any " freedoms". A  crash  because someone was  exercising his  "freedom" to  ignore  traffic rules and common sense is the ultimate  denier   of "freedom" for the  victims maimed, paralyzed or killed by that fool.

By the way , in many  jurisdictions there  is a ban  on tinted windows of the  drivers and  front seat  passengers   windows  and  limits the the amount of tint  in the  windshield.  Those  limits  to  "freedoms"  are there for the  "safety" of  LE officers so  they  can see the driver  and front seat passenger  . Admittedly  it  actually does  little  to protect  them, but it  is  a  law that  few take  as  any assault  on their  "freedoms".  I  draw  the  law  on  all limits to  "freedom" that  are unreasonably  extreme,  and to  definitions  of  "freedom" that  are  also taken to extremes.

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32 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

we should remove all speed limits



The study shows the safest period on Montana’s Interstate highways was when there were no daytime speed limits or enforceable speed laws. https://www.motorists.org/press/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox/

33 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

and traffic signs

Removing Signals and Signs from Intersections Just Might Make Us Safer  https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/09/shared-spaces/116/

And just for kicks, the school with no rules https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Y0cuufVGI

I get your point though, just saying.  As Molyneux put it, lack of coercion does not result in chaos, but spontaneous self-organization... or something like that.  Of course he's a hypocrite as his forum is filled with more rules than any online!

39 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

there  has to be  some reasonable  limits  to   "freedoms"  for the good  of  all

Right, but the problem is if you're using the distraction argument for cell phones, then you have to use it for eating and cb radios that millions of truckers and COPS use!  Every cop is guilty by virtue of being a cop! LOL

Maybe it's illegal to eat and drive in canada, but in the US such a law would cripple the fast food industry.  I remember I let my gf drive while I ate a hamburger when we were rear-ended while stopped at a traffic light.  I told the cop that I didn't want to eat and drive because it's illegal and he said "It is?  That's news to me."  I just figured it was illegal because it probably should be, but it isn't.

And now we have new Teslas coming with touchscreens which is a giant distraction while people drive on autopilot.

47 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

tinted windows

I think there is an epa law requiring all cars with AC to have some degree of tinting.  The degree of tinting you're allowed to have varies from state to state.  In AZ you're allowed more than most states.

But we've veered farther than I originally wanted to stray from the point of this issue which was republicans enacted the law specifically as another means to shakedown the public and expand the police state for their drug war because they are not interested in safety whatsoever, unless you think this is safe:


Believe it or not, that numbskull is going to get at least half the votes and he already has Trump's endorsement.

He talks like he's suffered a stroke https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/05/02/brian-kemp-pointing-gun-teen-daughters.hln

On his page he's shaking hands with a cop (and not because he's safety conscious but planning to launch a war on mexicans) http://www.kempforgovernor.com/issues

Another IQ95, like Trump, who likely had everything handed to him by daddy

Kemp was son in-law of the late longtime Georgia lawmaker and Athens insurance executive Bob Argo.[6]


Representatives like him only cement the already derogatory stereotype of Georgians being dumb hillbillies, but you know what they say about birds of a feather...



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Right, but the problem is if you're using the distraction argument for cell phones, then you have to use it for eating and cb radios that millions of truckers and COPS use!  Every cop is guilty by virtue of being a cop! LOL

Eating or drinking  a non-alcoholic beverage while driving in itself  is not  illegal , but if a  cop sees you weaving or doing some other  driving errors that   can  be attributed to  distracted  driving you  could  get a ticket for  that.  Cops  here are exempted from some of the rules  on fiddling with electronics while  driving, and it  has  led  to  a few  cases of them  getting into  accidents while using  a cell phone or  checking their  on board computers.  Use of a  hand held  microphone  that  is  used as a microphone  only is exempt  from the   no  hand held electronics laws here.  That  covers   CB's, police radios  and  HAM  gear ..It is illegal to  use   the mike  to  tune  the radio  to a different  channel or any other  function than  push to talk  because it leads to the driver diverting  his  attention to  driving.  Yup,  it's a  fine  line ,  but  its there  to  allow  use of communication gear  not  held  and tuned in the  hand.

Yeah ,   in that campaign   photo   what   could  go  wrong ?..... Other  than  him  blowing a  new  navel  into  that  lad .

Your  mid terms are  going to  make for some interesting  watching this  coming  November.   The  Dems  need  to  really work  on getting the  vote  out and find  some very  good  candidates to  run  in the  red states  to  turn  them  as bright a shade of  purple as they  possibly  can.  Let  tRump  and the ERW carry  on  much  longer they  way they've been  going and  I can  see  a  lot of  Americans waking up  one  morning  wondering  "What  the  hell  happened"? I'm  afraid  they're putting  America  and   all  her trading partners  on a  path to  a repeat  of 1929.

Edited by davefrombc

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17 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Yeah ,   in that campaign   photo   what   could  go  wrong ?

Stacey Abrams is actually really cool.  She comments on that photo in this interview


I was surprised at her intelligence: high school valedictorian and Yale doctorate in law.

So I suppose the strategy for both Abrams and Cortez is/was to find voters who don't usually vote and get them to vote.  There are enough voters to flip the election, but they have to be inspired to vote and I don't think a centrist can be inspirational.

Here is a graphic I edited from the democratic perspective:


Obama was different and look at the youth vote.  Kids won't do anything unless it's exciting.

And here is a Stanford study of the election:

Trump performed worse among the demographic groups most likely to use the internet and social media.  Republican share of the vote in 2016 was as high or higher among the groups least active online.  http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0199571#sec005

So then I headed over to socialblade to see how various news sites compared in terms of subscribers and found CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, ESPN, and really anybody and everybody adding lots of subs.  Actually CNN is leading in terms of sheer numbers (not %) 




Scroll to the bottom for the charts.

So more people online seems bad news for republicans and CNN added nearly 2 million subs since Jan while FoxNews only added 3/4 of a million.

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17 hours ago, davefrombc said:

on a  path to  a repeat  of 1929

Things are going to get bad eventually because of the tax structure.  Money flows uphill due to profit and interest payments from the working class to the rich, so my question is: where will the money come from?

They say the problem with socialism is that we eventually run out of other people's money, but the irony is that it's the opposite: it's capitalism where we run out of other people's money because if the rich are in the business of getting richer, then where is the money coming from???  Are people dying and giving up their money to the rich?  Who is giving up their wealth?

The only way someone can get richer is if someone else is getting poorer or else new money is being created via the issuance of debt.

Without the redistributive taxes of the 50s , 60s, and 70s, the working class had to go into debt to replace that lost money ever since Reagan cut taxes on the rich.  And since money flows uphill via profits and interest on the debt, where will new money come from when their credit is finally tapped?

What caused the 2008 meltdown was oil and food prices getting so high that consumers couldn't pay their debt and then the whole house of cards came down.  Essentially, they ran out of money.... we ran out of other people's money to give to the rich.

That was the prime cause of the Revolutionary War according to Franklin.  King George demanded taxes paid in gold, but no one had gold because they were using Colonial Scrip.  People were starving, so they went to war.

Parliament hurriedly passed the Currency Act of 1764. This prohibited colonial officials from issuing their own money and ordered them to pay all future taxes in gold or silver coins. In other words, it forced the colonies on a gold and silver standard. This initiated the first intense phase of the first "Bank War" in America, which ended in defeat for the Money Changers beginning with the Declaration of Independence, and concluded by the subsequent peace Treaty of Paris 1783.

For those who believe that a gold standard is the answer for America's current monetary problems, look what happened to America after the Currency Act of 1764 was passed.

Writing in his autobiography, Franklin said: "In one year, the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed."

Franklin claims that this was even the basic cause for the American Revolution.

As Franklin put it in his autobiography: "The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the Colonies their money, which created unemployment and dissatisfaction."


Likewise in the Civil War the South was reliant on cotton and commodities, but the North had some spat with France over tariffs and the South had enough and wanted out because people were starving.  The Civil War had nothing to do with slavery and Lincoln himself said if he could end the war without freeing a single slave, he would do so.  The SCOTUS had already ruled before the war even started, so slavery was a nonissue.  

Dred Scott v. Sandford60 U.S. (19 How.) 393 (1857), also known as the Dred Scott case or Dred Scott decision, was a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on US labor law and constitutional law. It held that "a negro, whose ancestors were imported into [the U.S.], and sold as slaves",[2][3] whether enslaved or free, could not be an American citizen and therefore had no standing to sue in federal court;[4][5] and that the federal government had no power to regulate slavery in the federal territories acquired after the creation of the United States.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford

So why would they be fighting over slavery 4 years later?  They weren't.  The fight was about individualism vs collectivism... states rights vs national rights... the same fight that is going on today in nationalism vs globalism.

There may have been a war in the 1930s as well since people were starving once again, but FDR saved the day.  The first thing he did was ban gold 1 month after taking office and 2 months later he started the FDIC which guaranteed banking deposits.  Then he jacked up taxes on the rich and started Social Security.  Unfortunately we had a World War in the 40s, but afterwards the US saw an unprecedented spurt of economic growth and birth of a Middle Class which endured until Reagan planted the seeds of its demise.

Trump is simply repeating history, undoing what FDR did, and returning us to conditions that existed before wars began.  He may have good intentions, but he's just too ignorant of history to avoid repeating it.

I doubt we'll see a war or mass starvation, but conditions will deteriorate one day and probably very quickly like a tornado from nowhere on a bright sunny day.  When consumers run out of money to give the rich, that will be the breaking point, just like 2008.

The fed has the tools to fight downturns as a result of legislation from 2008, but all they can really do is buy bonds, which does give money to the middle class through military spending and other gov programs if they buy directly from the treasury, but last time they bought bonds it was from Goldman Sachs.  Ideally they should print money and send it to the lower classes, but that would be a hard pill for people to swallow.  Not even the BOJ has done that!  Only the rich can have welfare and everyone else gets the scraps that fall from the table in trickle down.

When prices and interest rates go up, that will be the end because consumers can't bear it.

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Its amazing to me that we havent seem the Mueller report yet today but dems like adam schiff basically say "whatever" even if no collusion, we are still going to investigate more. If nothing is found, enough already. If something is found then say something and have the president face it. But networks like cnn and msnbc are already moving along to other investigation. How pathetic..it really is. 

Here you go dems...from CNN just now!


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I wonder what the cost of this investigation was ? Tax payers prob paid upward of 2 million for this 

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3 hours ago, Frank Angerano said:

I wonder what the cost of this investigation was ? Tax payers prob paid upward of 2 million for this 


$25 Million in only the first 16 months. Has to be upwards of $40 million if not more. What a joke.

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I've been watching a few of the news channels this evening and its amazing to see democrats grasping at straws. Its like a not winning the lottery and trying to find a reason why the lotto machine may have given you the wrong numbers. I think the more they do this and act like this, the worse it'll be for them in future elections. They should just move on and focus on a real agenda for this country. 

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, quadmaniac said:

I've been watching a few of the news channels this evening and its amazing to see democrats grasping at straws. Its like a not winning the lottery and trying to find a reason why the lotto machine may have given you the wrong numbers. I think the more they do this and act like this, the worse it'll be for them in future elections. They should just move on and focus on a real agenda for this country. 

That can be said for both parties .. Look  at the millions  the GOP wasted trying to  find something ,  anything to  pin on the Clintons.  At least the Mueller  investigation did ferret out a  lot of  illegal activities  by a lot of people in  Trump's circle..  The  full results of the investigation aren't known  yet  either .

I must admit I'm  surprised they did not find any  direct collusion.


Edited by davefrombc
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I think a lot of non-trumpers feel the same way as @davefrombc where they can't believe there was no collusion. 

hillary clinton GIF

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      The most common way of ending underneath a quad is looping out. That's done by hitting the gas and having little to no experience with the power of an ATV. The front spikes up like an out of control stallion, throws you onto your back like a bucking bronco and then pins you like a UFC Champ.
      The second way is when you're having a bit too much fun sliding around in mud or other slick conditions, the tires finally do what they're designed to do and grip the ground but the rest of the bike, with you on it, keeps going.
      Finally, those who think they've found their bearings take aim for a steep slope and try to conquer it only to end up upside down or in their attempt to arch alongside said steep hill, tumble over the side.
      3. False Sense of Security
      This goes somewhat hand-in-hand with the roll over capability that many riders fail to appreciate therefore they also neglect wearing proper protective equipment. Don't think wearing jeans, t-shirt and sneakers is adequate protection when riding a 4-wheeled machine powered by a gas engine that doesn't have seatbelts. You need a helmet, goggles, gloves and riding boots at a minimum. Once you start ripping it on the track or trails add a chest protector, neck brace, knee brace, etc.
      4. Throttle Control
      Everybody wants to skip the kiddie stage and get right into hair-raising speed when it comes to riding ATVs. OK, most everybody. But for those who do so many put on the cloak of invincibility and think a quad is merely a mini car that finally enables them to release all sorts of pent up childhood inhibitions.
      So they jab their thumb into the throttle with the expectation of a controlled roller coaster ride. Instead, they loop out and end up underneath the quad or manage to stay seated only to careen off course and introduce their 4x4 to a large tree. ATVs normally have a thumb throttle and most have an automatic clutch so the clutch is one less thing to worry about. So go slow and figure out how much "thumb" is too much and get used to the speed and power an ATV delivers before really going for a ride. Oh, one more thing, learn to take your thumb off the throttle!

      It's not to hard to loop out on an ATV
      5. Loading the ATV
      Never, ever ride an ATV up a ramp into the back of a pick-up. If you want to know why just go to YouTube. If you want to know how to load an ATV check out this fine piece of quality information on How to Load a Motorcycle, Dirt Bike or ATV into a Truck.
      The bottom line to riding an ATV the first time is treat it like you would anything that comes with a modicum of danger. Careless behavior endangers you and others but with common sense and a willingness to learn you'll enjoy of lifetime of riding quads.
      For additional information on riding and/or maintaining ATVs see:
      10 Quick Safety Tips for ATV Trail Riding Tips for New ATV Owners Choosing the Best ATV for Beginners 10 Things That Alter Your ATV Performance Written By: AndrewT
    • By KrazzzzzyHorse
      With a name like QuadCrazy I feel at home right from the start. I live in Houston Texas and just picked up two quads for me and my son. 
      I wanted to start by saying hello to all and find out if there are any others here from the Houston or Texas area. 
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      ©2008 by Del Albright, Land Use, Access and Rubicon Trail Home Page by Del Albright including Volunteer Training and Outdoor Photography . Use by permission only. Page 1
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