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Ajmboy

2016 Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Next President?  

48 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Vote for your choice for the next President of the United States

    • Hillary Clinton
      10
    • Donald Trump
      37
    • Gary Johnson
      1
    • Jill Stein
      0


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As an  observer from  north of your border, I sincerely hope  tRump gets beaten  badly  in both the popular vote  and in the  states won. Biden  is far more capable than  far too many realize.  Harris   is also.  tRump  and Pence are bad jokes.  The orange wonder  has taken the US  lower in international  opinion  than  it has ever been. His incompetence  and self serving is beyond anything I've ever seen  in  any western country. Obama and Biden  had an administration that was free of scandal. They took  a  country on the ropes and  started it back to  prosperity.  tRump has undone that . His  denial  and mishandling of the COVID-19  pandemic  has costs 10s of thousands more lives to  be lost to it than would have been  lost if he had taken the warnings in the beginning. His administration and election team  has been  one scandal  after another , and it is easier to  count the number of them  that have NOT been  charged criminally for their corruption and illegal  activity over the 2016  election and you can be sure  the Russians  are meddling again. What other President  has replaced so  many of his cabinet over the first 4  years of his administration?. . How  many have had as many of their associates  charged criminally for illegal  dealings with the government,For sexual  misconduct (  That's putting it  mildly)  and how many  have  had a parade of women  accuse him  of  sexual  misconduct themself. Playing off the prostitute and Playboy  bunny alone should  show the  truth in their accusations,  let alone his taped admissions of his tendency  to  "grab them  by the  pussy".  I  find it extremely  difficult to get my mind around the support that incompetent  narcissist  has.  It does tell the world not so  nice things about  America. I purposely switch the capitalization of tRump's name. I'm pretty sure  people  know  my opinion of that  north end of a south bound "Stable  Genius". He  may  hold the office ,  but you have not had a  President  for  4 years. Please,  tRump supporters , take off your blinders, look around  you,  hold your  nose if you  don't  like Biden  and vote that stain on America  out. Everyone  who  either voted for him because the  GOP's constant  barrage of unfounded character attacks on Clinton over the years or failed to  vote in 2016  because they didn't like either candidate put him in there.  Don't  do  it  again, please.  Look at the real issues and failings of his  administration. Put aside  your  attitudes of  "American freedoms" and whether social services and  Universal  Healthcare  are dreaded  Socialist controls over your lives. Do  you really want to end all government  services?  Think about it.  Any time people form a society where  they help one another  is a form  of "socialism".  Democracy is  socialism.  Absolute monarchy  and dictatorships the only  forms of government that are not.

Yes,  I have lost confidence in Americans living up to the ideals  they claims to  have. The plaque on the Statue of Liberty is meaningless to tRump and the society he is trying to  build will all bowing to  his "magnificence". 

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54 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

As an  observer from  north of your border, I sincerely hope  tRump gets beaten  badly  in both the popular vote  and in the  states won. Biden  is far more capable than  far too many realize.  Harris   is also.  tRump  and Pence are bad jokes.  The orange wonder  has taken the US  lower in international  opinion  than  it has ever been. His incompetence  and self serving is beyond anything I've ever seen  in  any western country. Obama and Biden  had an administration that was free of scandal. They took  a  country on the ropes and  started it back to  prosperity.  tRump has undone that . His  denial  and mishandling of the COVID-19  pandemic  has costs 10s of thousands more lives to  be lost to it than would have been  lost if he had taken the warnings in the beginning. His administration and election team  has been  one scandal  after another , and it is easier to  count the number of them  that have NOT been  charged criminally for their corruption and illegal  activity over the 2016  election and you can be sure  the Russians  are meddling again. What other President  has replaced so  many of his cabinet over the first 4  years of his administration?. . How  many have had as many of their associates  charged criminally for illegal  dealings with the government,For sexual  misconduct (  That's putting it  mildly)  and how many  have  had a parade of women  accuse him  of  sexual  misconduct themself. Playing off the prostitute and Playboy  bunny alone should  show the  truth in their accusations,  let alone his taped admissions of his tendency  to  "grab them  by the  pussy".  I  find it extremely  difficult to get my mind around the support that incompetent  narcissist  has.  It does tell the world not so  nice things about  America. I purposely switch the capitalization of tRump's name. I'm pretty sure  people  know  my opinion of that  north end of a south bound "Stable  Genius". He  may  hold the office ,  but you have not had a  President  for  4 years. Please,  tRump supporters , take off your blinders, look around  you,  hold your  nose if you  don't  like Biden  and vote that stain on America  out. Everyone  who  either voted for him because the  GOP's constant  barrage of unfounded character attacks on Clinton over the years or failed to  vote in 2016  because they didn't like either candidate put him in there.  Don't  do  it  again, please.  Look at the real issues and failings of his  administration. Put aside  your  attitudes of  "American freedoms" and whether social services and  Universal  Healthcare  are dreaded  Socialist controls over your lives. Do  you really want to end all government  services?  Think about it.  Any time people form a society where  they help one another  is a form  of "socialism".  Democracy is  socialism.  Absolute monarchy  and dictatorships the only  forms of government that are not.

Yes,  I have lost confidence in Americans living up to the ideals  they claims to  have. The plaque on the Statue of Liberty is meaningless to tRump and the society he is trying to  build will all bowing to  his "magnificence". 

Interesting point of view @davefrombc but keep in mind that it was the Obama/Biden years that got Trump elected. If their agenda was so good, Hillary would have won.  I don't want more government programs, I want everyone to work and earn what they get. I'm only for helping sick, elderly, disabled veterans, and single moms (maybe some others I forgot). No drug addicts or lazy asses. Everyone else has to work. I loved my employer sponsored healthcare before the ACA and wish it would come back. I don't like that employer sponsored healthcare changed so much since Obama. I'm for big business, small business, medium business, and everything that helps drive more business growth. Nothing is free, someone will always pay.

16 hours ago, JustRandy said:

@quadmaniac I'm no longer confident in my prediction that Trump will lose because I didn't anticipate Biden could be this bad.  Again the DNC appoints the worst candidate they could find.  

I can't believe they couldn't find anyone better. Harris did not enhance the ticket at all. They had a chance to put up a winning agenda but they got so consumed in trying to highlight what is bad in their point of view. That's a losing strategy, most vote with a WIFM and their wallets. Trump will end up winning.

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@davefrombc None of that matters.  People are going to vote for him anyway regardless what he does or how he acts.  That's why it's so hard to predict because none of it is quantifiable.

And Biden exists to stop medicare for all to protect the rich.  If Biden is in there, then no progressive can possibly come to power.  If Biden wins 2020, then Kamala wins 2024 and maybe 2028.  By 2032 we will flip back republican like always and that republican will likely be worse than Trump because they've been trending that direction since Bush Sr.  But if Trump wins 2020, then progressives have a shot in 2024 and medicare for all is still on the table.  That's why it's so imperative everyone vote Biden to protect the rich and they're leveraging hatred for Trump to effect that.

You might say Trump coddles the rich more, but it's so egregious and blatant that the risk is people revolt and a progressive comes to power who will really put the screws to the rich, so it's better to get Biden installed to prevent that fate and get everyone calmed down and put back to sleep.

And the police violence is actually Biden's fault because he wrote the crime bill.  He said "we do everything but hang people for jaywalking with this bill."  As bad as Trump is, I can't see him saying anything that sinister.

15 minutes ago, quadmaniac said:

keep in mind that it was the Obama/Biden years that got Trump elected.

Precisely!  If anyone thinks this Trump is bad, wait until they see the one coming after a run of Biden.

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Posted (edited)

I'm sorry but you gentlemen sure don't see i as I  and the majority of the international community do. tRump  got elected, not because of Obama/ Biden, but because of an anachronistic  Electoral College, and years of character assassination of Hillary Clinton that had too many believing the GOP lies and accusations against her;  NONE  of which were ever proven  in court. tRump got elected because of that "college"  and too many who  failed to  vote because they didn't like either candidate.   Medicare, like the rest of America's allies have, by whatever name you want to  call it is going to be  a hard sell no matter which party is in  power.  You have a  much better chance of taking steps to achieve it under  a Biden administration and successive administrations than you have  with Trump  and any  GOP  that might follow him.  Biden is a realist.  He knows all too well he can't bring it in to  stay without a lot of small steps to get around some of the constitutional  and  red state roadblocks that will be set up to try to  kill it .  Look at what happened with "Obama care". . a first step.  Ask people if the were against  Obamacare and get a resounding  yes.  Ask  if they liked the  Affordable Care Act (ACA) and  again  get a resounding yes. Same thing, different names, but the  GOP did a fine job of snowing people.  Yes, admittedly the ACA  had a lot of faults, but it was a first step...  Our  own  universal  care  here was started by one "socialist" party in one province  ( Saskatchewan) in 1947).  It took a long time and battle against major opposition to  reach the point it is at now .. There is still big money trying to  gut the system, and  yes , there are still much room for improvement in it.  If you're interested to see the fight we had , and in some ways , still have check out this site with a history of health care here.

The battle in the US will be much harder because of your political  system grants much more power and responsibilities to individual states,   plus  over a century of the right scaring people over a twisted view  of  socialism as they try to  paint it. .Anything of benefit to the little  guy  is immediately labeled socialism  to  scare people away .. If it benefits the rich it is free enterprise and praised. Socialism can be  used as a term for democracy. Democracy is socialism.. Free enterprise as some  on the extreme right like to  see it amounts to  slavery. Instead of physical slavery, people are slaved to wages,  kept as low as possible to benefit the  rich, and those wanting to get rich at the least possible cost. Instead of  "Massa",minimal  housing and food to  keep the slaves able to  work the fields we now have
 "Bosses"  and wages kept as low as possible so the workers can  get to  work and do the  job without them  doing too well  and leaving.

Free enterprise is good , but so  is social responsibility  and equality.  The two  can exist together. Some at the top get it  and despite being super rich , still find ways to  benefit all .  Too bad they  are so few .

@JustRandy   Just how do you feel   Biden  is so  bad?   Other than having a  battle with a speech impediment that  he still fights,  what has he done that is so bad?

Edited by davefrombc

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Posted (edited)

I doubt there  will ever be a President worse than tRump.  His administration has been the pinnacle of corruption and incompetence.  I can't see the US surviving as a nation if a worse one ever arises .

Here is the history of  Canadian  healthcare  I forgot to  link  above https://www.healthcoalition.ca/tools-and-resources/history-of-canadas-public-health-care/

Edited by davefrombc

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9 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

tRump  got elected, not because of Obama/ Biden, but because of an anachronistic  Electoral College,

Like Obama said, if Hillary had conducted a decent campaign, the electoral college would not have been an issue.  She couldn't win the swing states.  A good candidate should be able to win those states.

9 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

and years of character assassination of Hillary Clinton that had too many believing the GOP lies and accusations against her; 

Hillary and Trump are the most hated politicians in Gallup history.  That is not based on lies.  Biden is probably 3rd most hated by now.  https://news.gallup.com/poll/197231/trump-clinton-finish-historically-poor-images.aspx

9 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

You have a  much better chance of taking steps to achieve it under  a Biden administration

No way because Biden exists to stop medicare for all.  That's his sole purpose in life at this moment.  Obamacare puts the burden of the poor on the middle class while the rich profit.  Medicare for all puts the burden of the poor on the rich.  Under Biden, the poor will have healthcare, but the middle class will pay for it with high premiums and taxes while the insurance companies make big profits.  Once Obamacare is entrenched, there is no way to push for medicare for all.

9 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Biden is a realist. 

Biden is corrupt and owned by wallstreet.  Biden says we can't afford healthcare but Cananda is doing ok right?  Biden's "realism" says your country can't do what it's doing.

9 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Just how do you feel   Biden  is so  bad?   Other than having a  battle with a speech impediment that  he still fights,  what has he done that is so bad?

I thought I already said why.  He wrote the crime bill that locked up untold multitudes of blacks for drugs.  He wrote the patriot act that sanctioned spying on citizens and detainment without charges.  He is a supporter of private prisons that profit form his crime bill.  He exists to stop progressivism.  Trump is just a bumbling moron out for himself but Biden is truly evil.  Kamala is no better.

1,040,883,133 Reasons Why Bernie’s Supporters Will Never Support Joe Biden  https://ridethefence.com/2020/04/09/1040883133-reasons-why-bernies-supporters-will-never-support-joe-biden-seriously-we-counted/

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@davefrombc I can appreciate your point of view and just wanted to mention that. Although I may disagree on many points I do acknowledge that a one size glove does not fit all. There is a case to be made for both sides of this. Personally, I want better healthcare cheaper (like it used to be) and I want to keep more of my money I earn.  

You make a point that states have a lot of control and one thing that most states have a lot of are entitlement programs, pensions, unions, independent local agencies, etc. I wish they would convert pensions to 401ks,  get rid of unions, and take all those programs and offset the cost of healthcare for those that can't afford it or need help. There are too many government programs already that don't benefit everyone....

The more people depend on government programs, the more freedoms they lose. This country was founded on freedom, I just don't see that going away with history. I predict there will be a lot of closet voters voting for Trump because they want to keep their money and what they have..

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16 minutes ago, JustRandy said:

Obamacare puts the burden of the poor on the middle class while the rich profit.  Medicare for all puts the burden of the poor on the rich.  Under Biden, the poor will have healthcare, but the middle class will pay for it with high premiums and taxes while the insurance companies make big profits.  Once Obamacare is entrenched, there is no way to push for medicare for all.

Middle class is already paying for it with shitty healthcare, high deductibles and couldn't keep our doctors. Its outrageous actually. At least I have a low income family member that can benefit and I can feel a little better about it for them, by my healthcare plan for what I pay was drastically reduced. If I wanted the same coverage, my monthly payment more than doubled under a family plan. This is why I hate ACA/Obamacare. Screwed the middle class worker who relies on an employer sponsored healthcare plan.  I want that thing gone.

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51 minutes ago, quadmaniac said:

Middle class is already paying for it with shitty healthcare, high deductibles and couldn't keep our doctors. Its outrageous actually. At least I have a low income family member that can benefit and I can feel a little better about it for them, by my healthcare plan for what I pay was drastically reduced. If I wanted the same coverage, my monthly payment more than doubled under a family plan. This is why I hate ACA/Obamacare. Screwed the middle class worker who relies on an employer sponsored healthcare plan.  I want that thing gone.

Everybody hates obamacare and that's part of the point.  Either the poor are taken care of while the rich are protected or else the people want to go back to before obamacare which benefits the rich, so they win either way.

On the other hand, medicare for all is nothing out of pocket.  No paperwork, no deductibles, no copays, no nothing.  Just 4% tax on income above $29,000 and you go to any dr in the country.  In comparison, Canada has a 5% sales tax to fund their healthcare and I'm sure Dave will tell how great that is.  US and Canadian taxes are almost identical except for their 5% national sales tax.

Income tax 33% vs 37% (CA vs US)

Corporate tax 26.5% vs 21%

Employer's share of social security 7.37% vs 7.65%

Employee's share of social security 6.72% vs 7.65%

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/personal-income-tax-rate

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/personal-income-tax-rate

Canada does it, but we can't afford it?  No, the rich don't want to pay.

Yeah it probably would increase wait times because it's so easy to go to the dr, but Bernie also wanted to make it easier to get the education to be a dr so we'd have more of them.  The rich don't want to pay for that either.  It's Biden's job to be sure none of that ever happens.  That's why they rigged the primary to get Biden in there and they're counting on people like Dave hating Trump so much that they have no choice but to vote for Biden.  I don't know if it's going to work.

Michael Moore is sounding the alarm again  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/29/michael-moore-donald-trump-repeat-2016-warning

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Posted (edited)

Our health care has it' faults and more could be covered.it  is not  just a federal program. The Federal  government gives a per capita grant to the provinces for health care.  Each province decides how the funds will be spent  and how the rest of the  funds for health care in the province will be raised.  Were were paying a monthly fee for our health care here in BC, but  they  changed the system this year , much to the complaint of a  lot of businesses.  The Federal  government does negotiate with the various drug  companies for the pricing on drugs.  gain, I  can't speak  for  other provinces , but in BC  the  government sets the price the drug stores charge for the drugs. That goes to the government. The  drug stores get a dispensing fee for each prescription.  Non prescription drugs are not covered.  Vanity  surgeries are not covered.  Only medical  necessary  procedures are .  You want a face lift ,  ladies   breast enhancement or reduction, tattoos removed, or any other  non necessary surgery, you are on your own  and pay  whatever the clinic charges.  Yes, the US  could easily institute nationwide  universal  health care.  They could pay  for all sorts of  social programs and infrastructure repair and replacement.   Bring back the tax structure of the  1950's. That is how  America  was made  so  prosperous after WWII.  High earners/ businesses had to  invest in their companies or social programs . like sponsoring hospitals and education to  reduce their taxes.   You want to  complain  about taxes now ,  but back then  the  millionaires  and  some others in the highest brackets were  paying total  income taxes  of over  90% when  state and  Federal  taxes  were combined.  The middle and  lowest  paid  far  less. The big  change  in taxation  began  with Reagan and has ballooned since ..  Now companies  get subsidies and tax breaks  they  don't need to   reinvest in  America .. They  take their money and yours and run offshore with it . Social  programs do not affect your  "Freedom".  They enhance it  by reducing  your financial  worries when  sick  or  injured. They build your roads and  bridges , and maintain  them Unions are not your enemy.  Whether you realize it or not they  are the reason there is a middle  class now.

Unions were formed and people died for them in the early  part of the  20th century.  Study a  little  history on working conditions in the factories and mines  before unions came in ..  I agree some of the big unions now have a problem  with corruption . Some have become more like a company than  a force representing their members for the members benefit,  but that  is not a fault of unions but  of their administration  and too few  members actively working to see the  union is administered  properly at both the  local  and national  level.

 Yes, Biden  is a realist .  He  may have headed  the departments that brought  in legislation you hate;  but  whether you  like it  or not , he really  only has so  much control  over  what the  House and Senate pass. He, like all  single politicians in every level, has only so  much influence and control.  He  may lead , but that doesn't guarantee he will be followed..   Bernie  made  very good points ,  but with the  American  mindset that  any social  program robs from the middle to  support the  poor   and reduces  your "freedoms" you know as well as I  do there is no way in hell he could carry  any of them through. Hillary  was hated, not for what she really did , but for the character assassinations and false accusations  of the  right for over  30  years.  Lies and accusations told for that  long make far too  many accept them  as true. P.T. Barnum  and the  snake oil salesmen  proved that over and over. The Extreme  Right Wing know that very well  and carry it out  far too effectively.

Realistically ,  Bernie would have no chance of bringing in the reforms he espouses  if he  could  get elected.  Yes  I would have liked to  see someone younger   and less tainted  by the establishment,  but Biden  is not as  bad as both the extremes on the  right and on the  left paint him. 

It's going to  be an  "interesting"  election.

Edited by davefrombc

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15 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Were were paying a monthly fee for our health care here in BC

Sounds like the neoliberals got to you too.  Sales tax and monthly fees are just another version of obamacare putting the burden on the middle class.  Bernie had it right taxing income, but that makes it hard to shovel the burden on the middle class.

15 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Bring back the tax structure of the  1950's.

From 1932 to 1982 the rich paid effectively 50% of their income in taxes.  Those 50 years were the years America led the world by every metric.

15 hours ago, davefrombc said:

he really  only has so  much control  over  what the  House and Senate pass.

Come on man:

53 death penalty offenses!  Cops carry it out on the streets.

 

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I can not believe how many Pussy Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BITCH ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SHIT!

 

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34 minutes ago, Rich1028 said:

I can not believe how many Pussy Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BITCH ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SHIT!

 

Spoken like a true tRump lover ERW.  Yup, This bitch from  up  north  telling you  like it  is since you obviously  don't  go to other  sites where fact may be  told and civil  discussions made.

 

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1 hour ago, Rich1028 said:

I can not believe how many Pussy Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BITCH ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SHIT!

 

@Rich1028 I'm not going to ban you but please watch your tone. Really not fair for you to say this. Out of the thousands of topics on atvs in this community, you gather your opinion based on the one "general discussion" topic about politics you decide to jump into? You then trash QUADCRAZY like this because of your political views? That's not fair and we are also not for name calling other members, no matter how much you dislike their opinions. 

Lets appreciate everyone's point of view and please keep it civil. Everyone. 

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The poll at the top says 37 votes for Trump and 10 for Clinton, so not sure how this forum could be characterized as a liberal bastion, but then again I don't leave this thread so I don't really know how it is out there.  Hard to imagine many are supporting Biden though.

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On 9/1/2020 at 7:14 AM, JustRandy said:

From 1932 to 1982 the rich paid effectively 50% of their income in taxes.  Those 50 years were the years America led the world by every metric.

I remember one of the big stars of  the  50's saying one of the big reasons he sponsored so  much  medical  and educational institutions  was  because his income was so  high that  in  Federal  and state / local  taxes of the time  he was paying closer to  90%+ in  taxes.  Individuals  had  to support "social  programs"  so  they could reduce their taxes  and see the money they paid out in lieu of taxes  went to  programs they  chose rather than  where the politicians wanted to  spend it . There was very little  "corporate  welfare"  back then.  Again ,  profits were taxed.  If they wanted to reduce the tax burden they could re-invest  those earnings in the company infrastructure  and employees  AT HOME. The  could not take the money  and run offshore with it;  claim  losses  domestically   like they  do now  and claim subsidies.   Gad ,  how "socialist"  both the  Republicans  and  mainstream  Democrats were back then.  The  GOP  held the  mantle of being for the little  guy and freedom /  equality  and it was the  "Southern  Democrats" that were the extreme Right Wing that pushed Segregation  and  the White  privilege of the day. How things have  changed,  mostly  from the Reagan days  to  now . The  Dems and GOP  have pretty much switched  platforms with  the  ERW  in the GOP  and the ELW  in the Democrats  where before it was just the opposite.

I  can  never understand the thinking that social  programs like Medicare , employment  benefits and  other "social  programs"  take away  your freedoms    as so  many on the right scream .  Instead they  save people  from the  "Freedom"  of going bankrupt or dying  because they can't afford the medical  treatment they need ,  or recover from  job loss from injury  or  other things not under their control.   Crying  why  do  I  need to  pay taxes  to support those that  refuse to  work  is  a  non-starter in reality. Yes, there is that  small  proportion  that could be called parasites by choice , but the vast majority that need those programs  are there because of mental  illnesses and abusive  family backgrounds that  did not put them  on a responsible  path.  Tots are colour blind,  don't  care  what their playmates look like  or what religion they  are growing up  in .. Those prejudices  are taught to them  by  prejudiced  parents  and society.

Everyone should have the freedom  to have a safe and prosperous life.  Free  from  restrictions  put  on them by others that don't agree with  how they look or worship.

Americans,  like  us  Canadians all  have  the same freedoms of choice,  good or bad.  We all   also have the  "freedom"  of paying for our  bad choices. Government  sponsored social  programs in no  reduce those  freedoms. 

No  matter  how much those  on the right want to  complain about  Unions, it's those unions that are mainly responsible for there being a  "middle class"  in North America  now.   If  you really want to  see the truth in that , just  look  at  what states  unions   are the strongest in and what ones they  are weakest in  , and the n compare their economies and the ration of lower ,  middle  and  upper "classes" .  fo the most paret ,  it's  the ones with the strongest  unionization that  have the largest ratio in the middle.

Yes,  I well know  that  the  last century of the right and elite complaining  about  "socialism"  and  "Communism"  have been  able to keep  much of the  masses  scared of anything that benefits all . Their propaganda has been very  effective over those years.  With today's  connected  society,  those old cries are not  nearly so effective in  keeping  America snowed..  That's about the only  good thing tRump has done for America.. It  has brought  out   some of the weaknesses in  American  democracy and Constitution.  At least for those that want to  open their eyes and ears and really look at the society today. tRump  has taken your government  closer to  Fascism than  it has ever been , and hopefully  never will  be .

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On 9/1/2020 at 3:54 PM, Rich1028 said:

I can not believe how many Pussy Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BITCH ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SHIT!

 

Not sure where you get that from, I think you are a little out of line here and I am a republican. This is really the only topic on this forum that has any political discussion so unless you have some private PMs going on with other members, you might want to rethink your response....just saying. 

6 hours ago, JustRandy said:

The poll at the top says 37 votes for Trump and 10 for Clinton, so not sure how this forum could be characterized as a liberal bastion, but then again I don't leave this thread so I don't really know how it is out there.  Hard to imagine many are supporting Biden though.

and thats an old poll from 2016 when it was Trump and Clinton running. I do agree on not being able to support Biden. I'm looking forward to the debates and really hope Biden does them and doesn't find an excuse not too. 

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I  find it disappointing more people don't  chime into this thread  from  both the  Dem  and GOP  sides of it.

When  you  have  only two  choices  ( not voting  is NOT  a choice.  It is a choice for the worst outcome ) you really  have to  think,  look and  listen to  the contenders and  try to  make your  choice on  where they stand,  not on whether  they  are a member of the party  and philosophy  you support or  not. 

 Yes, I personally detest the likes of tRump  and all those that think and act like him; and it goes back  long  before  that narcissistic incompetent ran  for the Presidency.   He  has done nothing for the country  and all for himself  since  the Electoral  College  put him  in there.  Believe it or not , but tRump  ran , not to  win the job  and do  for the  country  , but to  get  very  cheap  air time to  hype  his name  for purely  business   gain.   That  he  won was  a huge bonus for him that he  has tried to take full  advantage of ever  since.  I  do  hope to see  debates  between  him  an Biden,  and  real time fact checking  on line  and  in  video  commentary during those debates.  Biden  has a  disability  that  often  has  him  misspeaking ..  Trump  has  a personality  disorder that  has him very difficult to speak the truth, and even  if he does  say  something truthful , ends up  embellishing it  until there  is  little truth  left in it.  

 "It's gonna be interesting  in November"

 

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@davefrombc I know someone who had a heart attack and said if she were not unconscious and blue laying on the floor she would have said not to call the ambulance because she can't afford it.  Her biggest concern was not dying, but being saddled with the cost when the reason she was working so hard in the first place was because she can barely afford to get by which is what caused her heart attack.  The US is like a 3rd world country.  All we're missing is people selling kidneys for food.

 

16 hours ago, davefrombc said:

I  find it disappointing more people don't  chime into this thread  from  both the  Dem  and GOP  sides of it.

It's not about facts, but emotions like rooting for a sports team. So all we'll get is fighting and butting heads.

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I  know someone  here that had a heart attack  and quad  bypasses....... ME..... Our universal  health coverage covered all  my medical expenses  at the time ( 20  years ago  now) and my supplemental  coverage from work  covered  enough of my wages  that I  did not fall  behind on my  bills.  I  have  friends who  also have needed bypass surgery.  All  have done well since except for  one  who  unfortunately had a fatal attack the day  after  her surgery.  They  didn't say whether it was a failure  of the bypasses ,  a subsequent  clot  or other problem , but whatever it was it  was fatal  for her .

Even though we have had  universal  care in varying form  here for years across Canada, the  for profit  health care industry  is still spending millions every year trying to  gut it.  So  far the provinces , even  those  with more right wing Conservative majorities  have resisted letting them  back  in.  They  know all  too  well the drubbing the voters would give them  if they did.

We  get  our  share  of fighting  and butting heads here too, but with multiple parties to  make it more interesting.  We  don't have a  President to  try  to  make himself a dictator.  In our parliamentary  system the head of the party with the  majority number of members sitting forms the government. If  no  one party  has a working  majority they  may form  a coalition  with   one of the others with sitting members to  form that majority.  Should  the  government suffer a vote of  non-confidence, there  must be a  new election.  It doesn't  matter if it  is only weeks from the election or the  maximum 4  years.  Coalition governments  make for a  little more cautious  legislation and  can  at times be frustratingly slow in getting things  passed,  but  it  is sure a lot better than  an absolute majority pushing through poorly thought out  legislation.

Like  you , we have those that  only  vote for the member of their chosen  party no  matter  how poorly equipped he or  she  may be for the job.  We have no primaries here .  Candidates are chosen for each  party  by the members  in  each of the  ridings . The general  public  only gets to choose between the ones chosen   in the general  election.

  I  belong to  no  party.  I  try to  choose the one  I think  can best represent my interests and those of  my community , no  matter which  party  he  or she  may belong too.

My  leanings are definitely to  the liberal  view, not  the Liberal  party as such.  Federally  the  Liberals  are left leaning ,  but here in BC the  Liberal  party is anything but liberal. They were taken  over  several  years ago by  members of the old provincial Conservative and  Social Credit parties that were  basically wiped out by  a third party,  the  NDP..   LOL

( Social  Credit  was   a very  right leaning populist party that  ruled here for  several  years in the 1950's and early 60's)

Ialways encourage everyone to  vote for who they think best represents them  despite the party they  may or may not belong to.

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      ©2008 by Del Albright, Land Use, Access and Rubicon Trail Home Page by Del Albright including Volunteer Training and Outdoor Photography . Use by permission only. Page 1
      A New President! Now What?
      Recreationists Must Unite and Mobilize
      By Del Albright, BlueRibbon Ambassador
      Recreationists who enjoy the backcountry, waterways, off‐pavement trails and SUV exploring have a
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      Inherent with new Presidents, rotating congress critters, and term limits, we will always be in the game
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      organizations and become the empowerment to get others to join the cause. Membership in our
      standing organizations and clubs is absolutely critical to the survival of responsible recreation.
      Step three is to adopt more of our public lands and engage with our state and federal land management
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      for us to be involved in the use, management and future of those lands and waterways we love to play
      on. We need to be at the table when decisions are made, problems are identified, and solutions are
      implemented.
      We have to take “ownership” of our resources. Oh, excuse me, we do own America! Let’s not forget
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      to ensure our lands are protected FOR the public instead of FROM the public. ☺
      (That is the motto of the BlueRibbon Coalition).
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      BlueRibbon Coalition is a national recreation group that champions responsible use of public and private lands,
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      organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000 recreationists nationwide. Call 1-800-
      258-3742 and visit BRC online at BlueRibbon Coalition: Preserving your recreational access to public lands.. Also visit Del’s website at Land Use, Access and Rubicon Trail Home Page by Del Albright including Volunteer Training and Outdoor Photography.
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