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Eric C

These Bayous with No Spark.. What in the world.

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I have looked at every thread I feel like, but with no resolution. Its always the same with a no spark issue: 
Replaced CDI, 
Replaced Pickup Coil (Pulsar)
Good continuity from CDI to green white wire at ignition coil.
No Pulse at ignition coil on the green white wire. (testing with test light on Pos of battery.)
Good 12+ V on the hot side of ignition coil.
I swapped the wires around on the Pulsar.
The grounds seem to be good for the blk/y wires throughout bike.
Brand new battery.
Brand new stator and Pulsar
Tried 2 new CDIs
Brand new rectifier
I get about 300 Micro A/C volts across the two wires on Pulsar when cranking.
I am currently cleaning the connections on the rectifier because they were burnt. I am not even sure if it makes a difference because I am told that doesn't produce spark anyway and is only for charging system.
The fly wheel looks OK, is the pulsar supposed to be connected in the direction with the metal "Button" facing towards the flywheel?
My bike is a 1995 bayou 300, but I seem to come across same issues on web but no resolution on these things.

Edited by Eric C

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The rectifier if shorter aka burnt up may be causing a grounding of the electrical system and could knock out the ignition circuit. I would correct that and see what happens. And also go through the entire harness. Maybe it’s hit, damaged corroded at a connector and also the kill switch assembly. 

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Hi, so I cleaned it the best I can with contact cleaner, still no go.  If i unplugged the rectifier and tried cranking i should still get spark correct?   I assumed if the engine was turning over I wouldn't have an issue with kill switch?  One thing I noticed is if i hook up my meter to pulse side of coil and put one probe on positive of battery I get about 1.5 volts cranking.  Yet my test light doesn't work when I do this.  I am testing using an Actron electric meter so Its happening to fast to see if it pulses.  Now I am wondering if I should forget the pulse test and buy a new coil and start testing at spark plug.

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First thing you need to do is bypass the kill switch and bypass the ignition switch.  May have to use a jumper wire on the ignition switch so spark can flow thru to the coil.  Easy to do if you can get the service manual and follow the instructions there.

Also, check the specs of the Igniter (21119-1369) then the stator assembly (21003-1276) and also the pulsor coil part number (59026-1092).  I had worked on many of these bikes and it's usually either the stator or the pulsor coil.  Although any of the other's mentioned here in my ramblings will cause a no spark situation.  Also, check the specs on the ignition coil and the plug boot.

The pulsor coil should not show any voltage if your doing a ohm test, and nor will the stator assembly.  If you find any voltage there then you probably have an issue with the wiring somewhere.  Also, the voltage regular has no ties with the spark system.  All that puppy does is convert the stator AC to battery DC to keep the battery charging.  A good regulator should measure out at the battery with at least 13.5 to 14.0 volts, if not and the voltage is 12 or 12.5volts DC then all your getting is battery voltage providing you have a good battery.

Your problem is a simple diagnostic fix altho you may not like the price of some of the parts once you find the issue or issues.

Before you do anything get a service manual.  All the electrical specs are there and use a good ohm meter like a fluke or something not one of those Walmart jobbies or some other crap meter.

Good luck

 

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I  am  not familiar  with your ignition system, so  I can  only comment  on the  kill  switch  possibilities..  On my  Honda  and   friends Suzuki,  Kymco  and Yamaha ,  all  will  turn  over on the starter when the  kill switch is  active..  The  kill switch  merely stops  the  ignition pulse.

Here's the  thing.. Magnetos are  shut off  by  grounding them .. It depends  on how  your  system  is wired whether  the  kill  switch  grounds out the  magneto  pulse, or  whether  it opens  the  circuit to  the  CDI to   kill the  ignition..

Bypassing   the  kill  switch  could  in effect also  kill the  ignition if  it   uses  grounded  magneto  to shut it  off;  you  have to  know   if  your  kill  switch  is normally  open  ( circuit broken )  to   stop  the  ignition,  or  normally  closed ( continuity  to  ground) to   kill the  magneto.

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Thanks for the response, Unless I am flawed in my thinking, I still would believe my ignition switch and kill switch would be in good working order only because I have the solid voltage with key ON at positive side of ignition coil.  I have attached my diagram for my bike..

My yellow red/wire would not be charged if it wasn't for my kill switch, and my kill switch wouldn't be charged if it wasn't for ignition correct?

 

electrical.pdf

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Yes,  it appears to  me  there  should be voltage on the  yellow /red with the  ignition  on. Your pickup  coil sends pulses directly to  your igniter.  Looking at your  diagram  , I would say  either the pickup  coil is  not  pulsing for some reason   or there  is a problem with a  broken wire in   the  igniter  circuit,  either on the  hot side , or even  between  the  igniter  and the  ground. It  may be  if the  igniter  is not  grounding  properly  (corrosion,  broken wire) ,  you  may see voltages where they  belong   but  either the igniter is faulty,or it  cannot  pulse  properly  because the  ground  for it  is  open.-  I would che\ck  all  wires  for breaks and  the  ground for  break  or connection corrosion.

 

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5 hours ago, Eric C said:

Thanks for the response, Unless I am flawed in my thinking, I still would believe my ignition switch and kill switch would be in good working order only because I have the solid voltage with key ON at positive side of ignition coil.  I have attached my diagram for my bike..

My yellow red/wire would not be charged if it wasn't for my kill switch, and my kill switch wouldn't be charged if it wasn't for ignition correct?

 

electrical.pdf

As far as i know there shouldn't be any voltage at the coil.  That coil is suppose to be the same as a transformer.  The power comes through the igniter which gets it's power from the magneto.  If you have 12 volts on that coil i think you need to find out why.  A shorted wiring harness may be the cause.  I've never ever seen voltage on a coil except years ago when you needed a battery to step up the coil and that system used points and condensers, that bike is all electronic.  That coil has 2 sections to it.  the Exciter does what it's suppose to do it's designed to excite the primary windings of that coil and then the coil will step up the excitement to a much higher voltage across the secondary winding hence the plug wire like maybe in the 20 or 30,000 volt range which is needed to throw a spark across that spark plug.  Unless someone can prove me wrong the only voltage at the coil is when it's being excited with power from the magneto to the exciter to the coil.  Any shorts or grounds will interrupt the flow required and therefore, no spark.  12 volts is on that bike for the starter and lights and run accessories that you may put on it.  That's it.

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If you use a test light on the green white pulser coil then that light will short out the pulse you need.  Remember that light is a test light which requires + and - to work.  If you use that i can't see you getting any spark.

 

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If you use a test light on the green white pulser coil then that light will short out the pulse you need.  Remember that light is a test light which requires + and - to work.  If you use that i can't see you getting any spark.

 

Here is a list of what would take out your spark.  I personally think if you tested all your switches you have a shorted wiring problem or a open issue.

No spark; spark weak:
Spark plug dirty, broken, or maladjusted
Spark plug cap or spark plug lead trouble
Spark plug cap not in good contact
Spark plug incorrect
Pickup coil trouble
Igniter trouble
Ignition coil trouble
Battery voltage low
Ignition or engine stop switch shorted
Wiring shorted or open

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15 minutes ago, skidooer_3 said:

As far as i know there shouldn't be any voltage at the coil.  That coil is suppose to be the same as a transformer.  The power comes through the igniter which gets it's power from the magneto.  If you have 12 volts on that coil i think you need to find out why.  A shorted wiring harness may be the cause.  I've never ever seen voltage on a coil except years ago when you needed a battery to step up the coil and that system used points and condensers, that bike is all electronic.  That coil has 2 sections to it.  the Exciter does what it's suppose to do it's designed to excite the primary windings of that coil and then the coil will step up the excitement to a much higher voltage across the secondary winding hence the plug wire like maybe in the 20 or 30,000 volt range which is needed to throw a spark across that spark plug.  Unless someone can prove me wrong the only voltage at the coil is when it's being excited with power from the magneto to the exciter to the coil.  Any shorts or grounds will interrupt the flow required and therefore, no spark.  12 volts is on that bike for the starter and lights and run accessories that you may put on it.  That's it.

The coil  is  a  "transformer"  in that  it steps up the  voltage  from the  system 12v to  10 to  30Kv  .It  can  have  voltage on  one side with the  other switched to  ground by the  points  or electronic circuit.  The coil fires  by the   circuit  being  broken.  The collapsing magnetic field in the  primary  winding  is what  creates  the  voltage  pulse in the  secondary.   Get an  old  car  spark  coil  and connect  it to  a  battery.  Any DC  voltage  from  6  up  will do.  Nothing happens  until you  disconnect the  ground. Then  you get the  spark.  That's  how  all   spark  circuits work  basically whether  it  is capacitor  boosted  electronic or  a simple  coil and breaker point system.  I too  suspect a  broken  wire   or faulty  component,  and leaning  more to  a  bad connection since so  many  new components have been tried.

 

 

Edited by davefrombc
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14 hours ago, davefrombc said:

leaning  more to  a  bad connection since so  many  new components have been tried.

 

 

Well guys, I found out the issue!

 

I took about 2 hours of checking the ground and every single wire in the harness for continuity or breaks in the connectors.  I realized the CDI was getting power on its own side through its own connector and the ground continuity on the CDI side was good.  Once I checked that I looked at the pulsar once again.  When I tested it before for the 200 Microvolts pulsing I was checking it on the pulsar connector but never checked it on the connector that plugs into the CDI.  Well there you have it, I wasn’t getting any pulse readings while cranking when checking this.  So here we go, let’s take a closer look:

I read somewhere on the internets that people who bought an aftermarket pulsar had to switch the wires, well if you see my first post I tried that, but my problem was different.  The connector on the pulsar had the wires coming in at the top and not the bottom where the push tab is See my pulsar pic – I am holding the aftermarket pulsar with wires the absent but are supposed to be at the top, on the right is the harness connector expecting wires on the bottom.  WTF..  I ejected the wires from the connector and connected directly and cranked, FINALLY PULSE at coil!!!  At this point I was ecstatic that I finally found the culprit!!  Luckily I didn’t throw away the old connector from the pulsar and injected the wires on that instead. 

But wait there’s more!  Upon all of the troubleshooting I was testing it with original CDI, I had the new CDI I mounted on the bike, so I was well lets just use the new one since I got it. – NOPE!  Same issue with CDI, The freaking connectors are backwards on these damn aftermarket parts!  My second picture has the aftermarket CDI (which is kind of broken with one of the wires now) and the Original CDI as you can see the connectors are different.  (The tab on the original is at the top but you cant see it in the picture)

So if anyone has these issues and have bought aftermarket, which lets face it - 80% off of genuine parts on these things!  Check your connectors!

 

 

pulsar.jpg

CDI connections.jpg

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Glad you  found the problem,  and thanks for  posting  the solution.  I  never thought of the possibility of wires switched in the  aftermarket  parts. That's one of the  hazards of trying to  diagnose from  afar. It's too bad you  had to  go through the  expense  and frustration finding the  fault,  but  hopefully   this  old  mind will  remember  to mention to  check  connectors for  mismatched  wiring next time someone  posts up  a similar  problem.

 

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Yep, I just find it odd that 2 different products from 2 different sellers have the wrong connectors on them. Oh, and my second aftermarket CDI I bought from a different seller also has the wrong connector..  The 2 aftermarket CDI's are a little bit different in the wire length and color is a little off to them but the connectors are still wrong.  I really don't understand why no one else has this issue, because people buy aftermarket CDIs all the time with these machines.

Needless to say the bike runs now, I finally rode it for the first time at 10pm last night since i bought it broken.  (I was just told it needed stator and starter hence the beginning of my whole ordeal) It was still well worth the effort of fixing it.

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