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Dra O

1999 suzuki king quad fuel pump/petcock/carb advice

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Hahaha verbal lubrication  lmao. @davefrombc that was great stuff right there! A carburetor is a carburetor is a carburetor! 

One thing I'm going to add to this topic is, I've loosened the carburetor clamps up and rotated it to remove the bowl and float while the carburetor was still on the machine. 
I have also dropped the pin that holds the float and the fill valve needle which took me forever to locate! So if your going down that road then be sure to add a rag or something bright and that if something should fall its got a bright and contained landing area. 
My personal opinion is to remove the carb since its not to difficult to do after you get the hang of it and getting that needle back up in there is not so easy to do while its on the engine.  
 

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took it to back yard and everything went blank.  battery is new - it was a 15 amp fuse in front.  thank goodness - was ready to throw in the towel.

I ran it around my yard and, after it got warmed up, it bogged down BADLY while pressing the throttle - sounds flooded - had to inch back to workshop... uphill, of course

played with the "governor" thing that taps in to carb to rev up/slow down the idle but this didn't help matters.  I put the clip at 3 spaces versus 4 and this didn't help.  I ran it without the air filter and this didn't help.

you think it's still the idle screw on bottom of carb?  I did loosen it up a bit like you mentioned - I think I can get a tiny screw driver up under it to adjust needle. 

** if I do take the carb off again - not an issue - remember I came out 2 5/8 turns on the screw - do I need to go out to 3 1/2 turns or will this be letting MORE gas in and flood it even more?

you're taking a LOT of time with me and I appreciate it, frank - I remain keenly aware that it gets old - but I appreciate your continued assistance.

some good news: I may can get the bearings on all tires changed for under $300 at a local Polaris dealer - other mom/pop shops wanted $500

 

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No worries on the time spent helping out. Thats what Quadcrazy is here for. 
I honestly feel like the air fuel screw is to far out. I would set it at 2-1/4 out from a snug position. 
NOW i know you cleaned the carburetor and reassembled it and probably did and amazing job.  Problem is sometimes we miss things or something has gotten back inside the carburetor. Are you 100% sure the gas tank is clean and not full of dirt ? If so add a fuel filter. 
 

So I would pull the carburetor one more time and open it up to inspect the ports, orafaces and jets.   Make sure its clean and blow out all the holes and Jets etc with compressed air.
Reset the clip on the main jet needle as per the manual and adjust the float so that the fuel stops flowing at about 3/4 way up.  You can verify this by leaving the bowl off of the carburetor and putting a clean hose on the fuel line inlet on the carb. Hold the carb so its in the proper right side up position and blow into the hose. You should hear air coming from the fill needle. Slowly raise the float up with your hand while blowing and it should stop at around 3/4 way up. If so your good to go on that, if not make the adjustment.
 

Set the air fuel screw as i mentioned and put it all together.  Remember what we discussed, the air fuel screw is the small screw that's underneath the carb and goes into the carburetor the one I circled in the pic a few posts back.  
Its a pain in the ass to adjust when its back on the atv especially while its running so you have to take a small flat head screwdriver and cut it to about 3 inches or so long and then add a little tape to the end so you can turn it with your hand. Before you make any adjustments when you get the carburetor back on try running the atv at 2-1/4 out and see how it goes. If not make the adjustment while the engine is running. Come out a quarter turn at a time. 

I'm sure this sounds like a lot but its all doable and takes time but it pays off.  
I cant tell you how many times I've had to pull a carburetor again. 
Just keep your patients.

 

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Bogging  is  more often  a  lean  problem than rich.. As Frank  said ,  I'd pull the carb once more  and  look for any tiny, and I mean  tiny   holes in the tubes  to the  jets . They  can be  missed very easily  because they're so  small  and  not a  brass jet  as  the  bigger ones  are . I  don't  know  if  your  carb  has the  holes  I'm  talking about  but  many  do.. Carbs  and fuel  mixture  settings  are  often accompanied by  a  lot  of  my  verbal  lubrication  here.  Sometimes I wish  I was multi-lingual  so  I'd  have  access to  a  broader range  of  "lubricant  " phrases. They're so  handy  when fiddling  with the small stuff  and  much  better to  use them than  start tossing  tools   LOL

 

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i only read the top part of your post on my phone - laptop showed me the rest - i'll tackle those steps next.

i didn't have to loosen the throttle cable and other piece this time - was able to turn carb on its side to reset the air fuel screw - i backed it out from snug to 2 1/4 turns and the throttle went in almost half way - this is progress.  i may back it to 2 and see what it does just for kicks. 

getting excited about this - will keep you posted

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10 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Bogging  is  more often  a  lean  problem than rich.. As Frank  said ,  I'd pull the carb once more  and  look for any tiny, and I mean  tiny   holes in the tubes  to the  jets . They  can be  missed very easily  because they're so  small  and  not a  brass jet  as  the  bigger ones  are . I  don't  know  if  your  carb  has the  holes  I'm  talking about  but  many  do.. Carbs  and fuel  mixture  settings  are  often accompanied by  a  lot  of  my  verbal  lubrication  here.  Sometimes I wish  I was multi-lingual  so  I'd  have  access to  a  broader range  of  "lubricant  " phrases. They're so  handy  when fiddling  with the small stuff  and  much  better to  use them than  start tossing  tools   LOL

 

hilarious - i may take a pic of the pieces this time - it's not bogging as bad w/ air fuel screw not out as far.

so let me make sense of this... they WHY behind it - and i likely will be thinking of this backward, but here it goes: 

-the air fuel screw mixes air and gas --- if it's too far in (3 turns), meaning that i can see or almost see the tip of it in the cylinder wall, not enough AIR? is able to mix with the gas and create the explosion?  thus, backing it out to 2 turns, i cannot see the tip, this opens up the hole for more air to mix with the gas at a better ratio conducive to creating an explosion - this process is fine-tuned until there's not any bogging down (ie the best ratio has been reached for max performance).  ??

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Very good! 
That air fuel screw is tapered and fits into an air passage in the carb, so turning the screw out increases the airflow. Some carburetors are different but most work this way.  Over time the screws tapered edge wears away and the adjustment gets less sensitive. 

 The optimal position where the engine is at max performance is usually done with the engine running. As you turn the screw in one direction or the other the engine revs higher or lower.  Higher is what your looking for the higher it revs the better the air fuel ratio is getting and you keep going in that direction until the engine starts to rev lower.  Thats the spot where  you stop and come back a hair. 

Edited by Frank Angerano

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Something to bear in mind: if the adjustment screw is on the engine side of the carb (like this one) it is a fuel screw, so turning it out richens the mixture. Most 4 stroke carbs are this way.

If it's on the airbox side, it is an air screw - common on 2 strokes. This works opposite but really does the same thing. It just fine tunes the pilot (slow jet) circuit in all cases.

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All internal pieces checked and cleaned.

Float bowl gasket:  unsure what happened here - it wasn't stretched prior to putting it in - it fit like a glove initially.  will likely cut it at the screwdriver mark and permaseal the joint

Assuming the attached pictures upload in order, picture #6 - it lies atop picture #7, under diaphragm - it is shiny - this is gas - is this to be expected?  it sits directly under the diaphragm

picture #8: center of carb - it's open - didn't want to try to remove the internal threaded piece - it looks fixed

picture #9: can see light going through main jet in center - the screw/jet under this has a VERY small hole - I couldn't get one wire of a clean pipe cleaner wire through it but was able to blow through it w/ my breath - that hole is SMALL.

picture #12 (last one): that hole at the bottom - does it have a function?   

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i'll make it work.  thanks.   going to try the float bowl stuff likely tomorrow.

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The tube that's threaded for the main jet can be removed, it needs to be pushed upward and may require a small punch to loosen it. There are small holes in it that I believe davefrombc referred to.

I didn't see any pictures of the needle & seat (aka float valve) that is retained by the phillips screw - did you replace the o-ring on it already?

The plastic piece in #6 & #7 is necessary for the spring to rest on - it looks like you've got it on correctly.

 

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"The tube that's threaded for the main jet can be removed, it needs to be pushed upward and may require a small punch to loosen it. There are small holes in it that I believe davefrombc referred to." -- I tried to lightly tap that main jet sheath out (downward) but it didn't budge - I COULD squirt some lubricant down beside it and put a slot head screw driver on the sides (see pic) and try to knock it out but, with my luck, the carb would snap in half - or i'd scratch something up real bad ---- but if there are holes in that area (in the jet sheath), it does need to come out, huh? 

pics below of main jet: looks like there'd be a tool that "unscrews" this piece - see needle pointing to area in question

the weird thing is that I've not had any small holes in ANY of the pieces to unplug w/ a wire... almost all of the videos I watch on carb rebuilds show them unplugging holes.  my pieces have holes straight through them - see pieces on cardboard paper - the ONLY piece that is too tiny to clean w/ wire I have is #5 - but I can blow through it - and i can blow through the old #5 piece

"I didn't see any pictures of the needle & seat (aka float valve) that is retained by the phillips screw - did you replace the o-ring on it already?" -- yessir, it was replaced - the o-ring was REALLY flat on the old one - the new one is nice and plump and fits perfectly (an entirely new float was included w/ carb rebuild kit)

Frank, the float bowl gasket DOES fit back in the groove - gotta press it down evenly from all sides - i'd have been up a creek had I cut the thing

gold jets - haaa!  that's how I roll, brothers! :D    I've no idea why they're gold - if they'd been green or pink i'd not have known the difference

 

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https://www.ronniesmailorder.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d0a5aff870022c2c534c07/carburetor-model-x

If you refer to the parts diagram, the piece you're trying to remove is #6 - the needle jet. These often wear out and the inside diameter increases causing  a rich condition.

Carb kits don't include this part but it may be required to get the carb working properly.

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I'm not familiar with that particular  carb, but the diagram does show  the tiny  holes I mentioned that  are in  many  tubes in different  carbs .. one thing  not mentioned is the direction that  jet tube  comes out  of the  carb  body . . Down towards the  float  bowl  or  up towards the  top?  trying to drive it the wrong direction   can screw up the works .

 

Edited by davefrombc

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It goes up to the top, the main jet screws into it from below which keeps it in place.

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but does it punch down or up?  I'd think downward from float.  but that's what i'd THINK - i'm no mechanic. 

both ends sit flush - I have oil soaking them now - if punch toward float it might break / chip the plastic housing

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The needle jet is removed toward the slide, just like it's shown in the parts diagram. When you say "downward from float" I assume you mean with the carb turned upside down.

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I would recommend removing it to clean/inspect/replace if worn. They usually pop out with very little effort.

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