2020 Presidential Election Discussion Thread

[Mech]

If you want the stats for N.Z. you could mail the statistics dept here and tell them you're homeschooling and would it be ok if you accessed their data base.. For your children's education you know.  If you talk sweet to them they might give you a password to get in..  Worked for me when I was homeschooling..  It says to ask if you want access.

 

And yeah, I know the problem. We have a similar situation when the parties all have to form a coalition to have enough power to pass stuff through the house.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Mech

[JustRandy]

2 minutes ago, Mech said:

If you want the stats for N.Z. you could mail the statistics dept here and tell them you're homeschooling and would it be ok if you accessed their data base.. For your children's education you know.  If you talk sweet to them they might give you a password to get in..  Worked for me when I was homeschooling..

I'm sure I could get it, it's just a lot of work.  It took me a week of solid working to do the US because it was downloading PDF files from the IRS which were scanned from old documents.  It was grueling.  I don't think I care that much to know to go through all that work again.  And if I did do it, I couldn't stop with New Zealand... I'd have to do Canada and Denmark too.

The reason I did it was Peter Schiff saying the rich didn't pay those high rates in the 1950s because of deductions and loopholes, so I went to the IRS and found they did pay it.

[Mech]

Ha yeah.. and who really cares. What is, is. We just make the best of things we can.

Reading through here has been interesting..

I've always paid about ten percent or nothing. Mates that work for wages pay about eighteen or twenty-two.

[davefrombc]

The deductions and loopholes they had in the 1950's were for re-investing in their companies,  and for charitable support for the less fortunate in the  US.Business boomed because people were putting their money to work in country , not grabbing  it and running out to invest elsewhere. There were costs to take the money out of the country and big breaks investing at home.  I  remember  Danny Thomas , Art Linkletter and others explaining if they didn't  donate to  the good causes, the government would take it  in taxes and waste it .  That  all turned around in the 60's with Reagan's idiotic "trickle down" and has only gotten  worse with successive GOP  administrations since. 

 Yes , I'm  old enough to remember Danny Thomas , Art Linkletter,  Arthur Godfrey and Red Skelton to name a few  Stars of TV  at the time.  I also  remember   D.D.Eisenhower and his warnings about the military / industrial  complex .  Ike was the last  of the GOP that was for the little guy before the  GOP  and Dems swapped  focus with the  old  "Southern Democrats"  going over to the  GOP  and the more moderate and left leaning of the GOP going to the  Dems.

[JustRandy]

7 hours ago, Mech said:

"Kiwisaver" is the voluntary saving/pension scheme that I mentioned.

Ah, I see.  So is it 11%?  And is the 8% paid by employee and 3% paid by employer correct?  If so, is it voluntary for the employer?

7 hours ago, Mech said:

Schools here, and the lower level education system, is paid for by central govt and out of income taxes.

I wish it were that way here because people with property (ie farmers) are not keen on paying for schools when their kids are grown.  And usually the people with kids also do not own property.  So the result is that school funding is voted down.

8 hours ago, Mech said:

To gain citizenship you need to be here a certain amount of time, it used to be seven years, and then you have to apply, you have to convince the govt of your good character, and then attend a ceremony in which you pledge allegiance to the country.

Are you sure that making a donation of a few million isn't proof of good character?

New Zealand gave Peter Thiel citizenship after he spent just 12 days there  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/29/new-zealand-gave-peter-thiel-citizenship-after-spending-just-12-days-there

Minister defends approving PayPal co-founder’s application, saying he has been ‘a great ambassador for New Zealand’

The billionaire entrepreneur who is a close adviser to Donald Trump, was granted New Zealand citizenship in June 2011, after taking four brief trips to the country. He made it clear he had no immediate plans to settle in the country.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

Bunkers

Well, it's supposed to be for nuclear war or similar global catastrophe.  New Zealand is the best place to be during that.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

Suicide, and social issues, as with all countries we have our problems.

Well yeah but NZ has the problems while also claiming to have the solutions (free heathcare, welfare, etc).  I'm just saying that maybe NZ isn't as social as you think and to be aware of it.  I'm not being critical, I'm trying to be helpful

9 hours ago, Mech said:

We don't elect leaders, we elect people to govt, and then the political party, or coalition of parties in power, vote for who's going to be leader.

It's kinda that way here.  The electoral college elects our president.  And as a result of the recent fraud I've learned quite a bit about the intention of the constitution and founders which is to have the state legislators elect a president while using the popular vote as a guide of how to vote.  So for instance if they think the people really voted for Trump, then they should vote for Trump in order to make the people happy and themselves get reelected.  What the vote really is doesn't matter; all that matters is what the legislators "think" it is.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

As leader, she was determined to make the country a family safe place. As the leader she was determined to make the country safe from the virus.

That terrifies me.  Mama Bears are terrifying.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.  That is where I resonate with Trump and those on the right.  It's not the gov's job to make us safe; it's the gov's job to secure our liberty; it's our job to keep ourselves safe.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

She is very popular

That terrifies me more lol.  Sheeple.  You have so many sheep over there that you merged with them lol

9 hours ago, Mech said:

I don't think anyone in N.Z. needs fully automatic weapons.

I don't have a problem with that, but you can't even have a semi-auto .22 varmint rifle.  All you can have is bolt action and no clue how many hoops you have to jump through to even have that.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

T's rhetoric towards "Rocketman", and China.

I don't think they take him seriously.  Is rocketman even alive anymore?

9 hours ago, Mech said:

As see it, your ex-president has done immense damage to these things,

Those things (peace, trade, health) can be fixed quite easily.  If you were in the middle east you'd be very concerned about a Biden presidency.  Luckily NZ is not sitting on something we want (like huge reserves of oil), so you have the luxury to cheer Biden and his military complex on.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

He's put you all at greater risk of war and the virus.

I think he has reduced our risk of war and had no effect on the virus.  I don't think anyone can have any effect on the virus.  GA and OH have similar populations and while GA took a hand's off approach, OH went all authoritarian locking people down and mandating masks.  All OH accomplished was delaying the cases and deaths.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

you should at least care for your own country and it's people

No one has done more to hurt Americans and Foreigners than Biden.  He should be put on trial, not made president.

9 hours ago, Mech said:

how you think he's benefited or or bettered your country

I don't think Trump made America better.  He raised my sales taxes for life that cannot ever be changed.  He deregulated food inspections and made a mess of the USDA website by appointing that dimwit Sonny Perdue.  He appointed all the wrong people to everything and just generally had no clue what he was doing.  But, most of the damage is already done and I think he's learning from his mistakes and wouldn't have been as bad in the 2nd term.  I like how he pointed out the fake news and government corruption.  I'm not really a flaming Trumper, but when presented with the choice of a guy who exists specifically to oppose social healthcare to protect the rich vs a bumbling moron, I'd rather keep the moron, especially one that appears to be learning from mistakes.  Trump is embracing $2000 checks which is not a republican position.  Trump is slowly becoming more like Bernie and Trump has the power to force republicans to play along.

Ok there's some homework for you tonight lol

[JustRandy]

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

The deductions and loopholes they had in the 1950's were for re-investing in their companies

I wonder why that is not evident in my data.  If they didn't pay the tax, then it would show in my data.  The way I understand it, companies got money from the gov for R&D and whatnot.  People against socialism should realize that practically every product in existence came from government money one way or another.  The gov pays for the development of things, then hands it to a small group to make big profits.  That profit should be returned to the people.

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

I  remember  Danny Thomas , Art Linkletter and others explaining if they didn't  donate to  the good causes, the government would take it  in taxes and waste it

They were probably making that up.

[JustRandy]

On the subject of Jacinda's decent into authoritarianism to keep people safe, I present:

New Zealand's School Without Rules

 

 

Kind of an odd mix to have a school with no rules in a totalitarian country lol

And yeah it's totalitarian because the gov can remove any liberty it wants and there is nothing the citizens could do about it.  Luckily they don't, but they could.

[Mech]

Ha... That's a good read Randy. Thank you for that. Seriously.

I'm not going to respond though. There are things you say that are factually true and a few things I spotted that weren't, but no matter, and your opinion is accepted.

My opinion of schooling... My wife died just before my elder son started school. They both started two years apart and when the second had been there two years, and both doing alright, I took them out and did better. Much better. But the really good thing was that before they started they were best mates, then slowly when they went to school they grew apart, and used to bicker and argue and not be nice to one other(we're big on nice). One week after I'd taken them out, I saw them walking off together, arms over shoulders, heads together, chuckling about some mischief they were planning..

Life's what we make it..

.

[Mech]

Well things are getting interesting over there now..  Amazing in fact.

[Mech]

And there we go... Burning the place down as he leaves..

[davefrombc]

Still 14 days to go  unless Pence invokes the 25th Amendment to  get him out now. Add sedition and invoking  a riot to  potential charges against tRump.

 Do the tRump  lovers on here see just how badly  he's misled the  US in building his cult  yet.?  I doubt it .. He's made the noises they wanted to hear in equating stupidity and selfishness with "freedom".

 

[JustRandy]

2 hours ago, Mech said:

And there we go... Burning the place down as he leaves..

🙄

[quadmaniac]

2 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Do the tRump  lovers on here see just how badly  he's misled the  US in building his cult  yet.?

LOL...Give it a rest, you are way too left for even a democrat (if that's who you align with of course). It sounds silly when you say things like that.  Violence has no place, but all those thousands of peaceful protesters in DC are not a cult. Dems will condemn today's protests but never condemned all the left leaning protests all year long that were violent. It's a bunch of nonsense and double standard.

Twitter shuts down Trump and refuses to turn his account back on until he removes his tweets and 12 hours after that? That's not influence by a media company? Wow is all I have to say about that, people should worry about that...

Oh, on another topic, anyone see this before? I'm not posting to say I buy into this, but it was interesting to watch... https://m.facebook.com/100003832833605/posts/1890921974378879/

[davefrombc]

5 minutes ago, quadmaniac said:

Oh, on another topic, anyone see this before? I'm not posting to say I buy into this, but it was interesting to watch... https://m.facebook.com/100003832833605/posts/1890921974378879/

I have never seen  any such accusations before and I strongly  suspect if it was fact it would have come out long ago with all the investigations the extreme right  has done on the Clintons..   Yes,  Quadmaniac , I am  definitely too  far  left for you ..  LOL  Anybody  left  of the extreme right  seems to be too far left for you .. Funny thing is , some on the nut case left  accuse me  of  being extreme right .. I  hope to be able to  continue to  twist the tails of the fools on both extremes.  I don't feel I'm  doing  any good for the sensible people if I don't have both  extremes pissed off at my posts when I post rebuttals to their idiot conspiracy theories.

 

 

[quadmaniac]

@davefrombc well I’m not pissed and quite enjoy reading yours and everyone’s comments. I don’t agree with everything Trump, but I strongly disagree with a lot of left leaning thinking and policies. 

[Nonampleasenoiwont]

This hasn’t been updated to the latest government drama. So can and will trump pardon himself?

[JustRandy]

9 hours ago, Nonampleasenoiwont said:

This hasn’t been updated to the latest government drama. So can and will trump pardon himself?

It doesn't matter since he can't pardon state crimes anyway.  As soon as he's no longer president he will be hit with a slew of state charges and likely spend the rest of his life in prison.

A prediction I made a few years ago is eventually those who supported Trump would never admit it.  That doesn't seem so ridiculous anymore.

[JustRandy]

Here’s What The Republicans Must Do: Force Biden To The Left

By Dick Morris on January 7, 2021

 

https://www.dickmorris.com/heres-what-the-republicans-must-do-force-biden-to-the-left/

Yes republicans, force Biden to the left.

Republicans think forcing Biden left will result in pain and people returning to republican solutions.  Progressives think forcing Biden left will result in prosperity.  Let's do it and see who is right.

Ain't gonna work anyway because Biden exists to stop movements to the left.  If the corporations and billionaires that Trump lavished and pampered wanted to move left, they would not have rigged the primary against Bernie in the first place.

[Mech]

Trump was inviting the Russians to interfere in the elections..  As a by the by..

Now they are saying his talk is sedition.. That is so far short of what he's been doing ever since he got in that it's a joke.. It's been deliberate treason from start to finish.

What's the punishment over there for treason ?

[Mech]

Found it...

§2381. Treason

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection

§2384. Seditious conspiracy

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

 

[JustRandy]

1 hour ago, Mech said:

What's the punishment over there for treason ?

Promotion.

[JustRandy]

Describes Pence perfectly:

 

Jack: If that ship be sunk properly, you should be sunk with it.

King: Captain Barbossa, each second we tary the Spanish outdistance us.  I have every confidence you will prevail and be rewarded with the high station you so desire.

Barbossa: To serve doeth suffice, sire.

Jack: You sir, have stooped.

Barbossa: Jack, our sands be all but run.  Where's the harm in joining the winning side?  And you do meet a nicer class of person.

 

Pence decided to join the winning side.

[Nonampleasenoiwont]

I love politics. I say one small thing sit back and watch the people go nuts. Best entertainment there is😂✌🏻🇺🇸

[MaxPax]

AFAIAC Pence is a traitor together with most other bought off politicians on this planet. Tyrants rule this Earth.

[quadmaniac]

So for all the Biden voters, do you have voter's remorse yet? #BIDENREMORSE

I'd rather Trump's stupid tweets than all the crap going on and especially in Afghanistan, what a mess. This country is going downhill on the world stage by the hour under Biden. We'll be left with Kamala when Grandpa Joe takes a leave of absence due to medical reasons...its coming. There isn't enough medication or makeup to keep him going for another 3 years...really sad to watch his speeches, gotta feel sorry for the old man, he's in over his head.

[JustRandy]

4 hours ago, quadmaniac said:

So for all the Biden voters, do you have voter's remorse yet?

I think the only Biden voter here is Dave and he's Canadian lol

Probably a better question is whether anyone is feeling remorse over Trump's scotus appointments.

I'm actually less scared of Biden now than at the beginning.  He doesn't seem to be after guns or really changing anything that much, so I'm breathing a big sigh of relief since it could have been much worse.

I think Afghanistan would have been a mess regardless who is president.

But yeah the country is going downhill fast.  If the FDA approves that vaccine then everyone will require it then lots of workers will quit which will cause more supply disruptions which are coming anyway because I see covid cases spiking bigtime this winter because the vaccine doesn't work, especially against the new variants that the vaccine is causing.

China, Japan, and most of Asia are locked down already, as well as Australia and recently New Zealand, so even if the dem states don't lockdown, the rest of the world will and it will cause supply problems.

I expect to see supply problems, high prices, lots of crime and general unrest.  Nothing to do with Biden specifically, but the Karens in general who Biden represents.  Also the fed seems determined to taper come hell or high water and that isn't going to help anything.

I expect covid cases will decline into September and will use that time to stock up and get ready for the big hit this winter.

[quadmaniac]

@JustRandy I think you are on point with everything you mentioned. In reality, I really don't think Biden is in the driver's seat. Something is off and  funky going on... It will be interesting to see vaccine mandates increasing with FDA approval, which I think is ridiculous if it doesn't work like MMR and other vaccines that are one shot and done.  I get it that its a virus and different, but then you need to hedge your bets on therapeutics. So now you'll have to manage your booster shot every eight months or whatever it is and provide your employer/school the info. That's a slippery slope to go up. What's bothersome is that some reports are as much as 30% vaccinated are getting severe illness, seems to be those who got vaccinated early in January/February.  The point of MRNA as the delivery was to be able to tweak for variants as needed. I'm not sure why they would bother approving the current vaccines if you're going to need a better one around the corner. Its like the GOV thinks people are too stupid to understand. 

[davefrombc]

The   mRNA vaccine is not like the MMR  vaccine.  Much different technology between them .  The COVID-19  virus is also not like  Measles Mumps and Rubella  in that one shot can protect you.  It is not yet like  influenza in that a new vaccine  has to  be released every year  to  combat the prevalent strain  of the year.  You best hope the COVID  doesn't get the chance to mutate to the point multiple vaccines  need to be created.  Despite  the relatively  low death rate from it now , the long term  effects are considerably greater  than   for the "flu".   The Delta variant is already more infectious than   the others and it only  needs  one  bad mutation to  make it far deadlier than it is now.  That is what has the medical community so  scared of it and so frustrated people don't recognize the danger it poses and refuses to  mask up  or get the vaccines.. Wearing a  mas and  social distancing doesn't threaten anyone's "freedom".. It's the minimum we can do to  protect ourselves,  our loved ones and  out community..  Refusing to mask up  is not "freedom" . It is selfish stupidity  by those that don't want to be inconvenienced by wearing one.  Some fools in the media  that pooh poohed  the masks and  dangers of the virus  found out too late how wrong they were and are not around now to tell their followers how stupid they were.

[JustRandy]

2 hours ago, quadmaniac said:

I really don't think Biden is in the driver's seat.

Yep, it's the corporate elites in charge.  Biden is just a puppet.  I used to say vote for Trump if you like Goldman Sachs or vote for Biden if you prefer JP Morgan Chase.

If you notice, private companies are enforcing government mandates like masks, vaccines, censorship, propaganda to circumvent the constitution while scotus remains silent.  We can't find a judge to judge fairly because invariably they are all part of the same gated community of elites.  How can we get a fair trial on vaccines if all judges have taken the vaccine?

And the FDA is already operating illegally because emergency use authorization is only legal if there are no treatment options.  But there are successful treatment options.... lots of them.  And nevermind that covid is no more fatal than seasonal flu in the first place.

So if the FDA is illegally authorizing the vaccine already, I'm not sure what's to stop them from giving full authorization.

As far as I can tell, the only thing the vaccine succeeds at doing, other than the adverse reactions, is driving the virus to mutate.  It doesn't stop transmission and really doesn't seem to attenuate symptoms either.  Deaths are lower just because the weak people already died and the fact that we now have better treatments.

In the beginning we had few cases and lots of deaths.  Now we have lots of cases and few deaths.  It's nothing to do with the vaccine because deaths relative to cases were declining before the vaccine existed.

Even if the vaccine reduced symptoms it would only mean people spread the virus more since they wouldn't know they were sick.  Usually sick people go to bed instead of going out to spread it around.

And still no one can know if the vaccine is safe until we've gone through two flu seasons at least.  We haven't even gone through one.  The whole thing is crazy.

[JustRandy]

45 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Refusing to mask up  is not "freedom" . It is selfish stupidity

Refusing to wear garlic around your neck is not freedom, it's selfish stupidity.

Wearing garlic around the neck is just as effective as masks, but it doesn't give anyone the false sense of security that masks provide because garlic around the neck is utterly ridiculous, therefore garlic around the neck is more effective than masks.

Also, garlic around the neck doesn't contribute to periodontal disease or pneumonia like masks do.

So either wear a necklace of garlic or you're killing grandma.  Exceptions can be made for those carrying a rabbit's foot.