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2020 Presidential Election Discussion Thread


2020 Presidential Election Poll  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Vote for your choice for the next President of the United States

    • Donald Trump (For Re-Election)
      14
    • Joe Biden
      3

This poll is closed to new votes


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13 hours ago, JacobSlabach said:

hahahaha fax that trumps to much of a clown to be hitler lol and you say that trumps 'rise to power' is much the same as hitler... i say so what the way someone comes to'power' doesnt describe how they will use that power.  also trump never had 'power' over anyone.. the media still held the same power they have today over the general public as they obviously do over you.  the fact that trump is taking power from the media in the last 4 years and gives it back to the american people is what pisses them off most.  if anything hitler was more like Obama in how he spoke and such

Trump is a symptom.  If not for corruption and fake news then Trump would not have been appealing.  So, the way to get to someone like Trump is to elect people like Obama or Biden.

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Hi all... Interesting read.

It's a kiwi from New Zealand here, and so not really any of my business, and I'm not really up with all the play, but as an outsider looking in, and since he seems to be the cause of such animosity, not a good thing in itself, I'd like to chip in.

Ever since that Trump got in, it seemed to me that he was hell bent on taking America down in every way he could.. I'm glad he's out.. he's a threat to your country and the whole world in my opinion.. I hope you all get over the strife he's caused as soon as possible and that he get's thrown out of the country for good....  He's one nasty piece of work as far as I can tell, and with an agenda..

Send him to the Russians... it sounds like he likes them.. or perhaps to his buddy Rocket Man.. send him anywhere but here... we sure wouldn't want him.. He's just trouble.. with a capital T .

And I hope that vaccine works like we all hope..  It's sure looks like it's been a hell of a few years for you guys, especially the last one.  Good luck with it all. 

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Glad to see you chip in Mech.  There are some here who refuse to see tRump for what he is and has been doing to the  U.S.  He is a nasty bit with the charisma  of the cult leader  he is.  His actions and inactions affect us here more than  far too many realize since  the U.S. is Canada's largest 2 way trading partner and we theirs. In many  border cities people  live in one country  and work in the  other.  Especially in the border areas people have friends and family on both sides. The border actually passes through houses  in some towns.  I know I'll get flack for this but the farther you  go south from the 49th, the more ignorant Americans are of Canada  and for a very large part , the rest of the world.  You see that displayed more in the  farming/ ranching states ( and for that matter  in the Canadian  provinces towards the U.S. and the world) .A big part of the reason for that  is because they are insulated by geography and immigration patterns from meeting people of different cultures.  Another  huge factor in the xenophobia  of  many in the south and midwest  is not  just their relative isolation from  other cultures  is their education system that barely  mentions the  rest of the world and focuses nearly solely  on the  U.S.  and their Constitution with its "freedoms and independence" and the interpretation of them by their Extreme Right Wing that is far too vocal. I  grew up  within 10  miles of the border of Washington and BC.  We and the people of  Washington  lived, worked and played on bot sides of the border  and considered it more a  minor inconvenience rather than something dividing us.   Want proof of  much of what  I say?   Look at a map  of the  US with the political leanings  of the  different states .  The northeast and the west coast favor the Democrats  and   largely rely on international trade for their economies. As such they are far more exposed to  other cultures an   immigrants from them. They  are generally more attuned to the world in general.  The south and midwest  depends more on agriculture than industry  and  as such are far more isolated from the outside world.  In some ways the divisions between north and south because of the  difference in sources of livelihoods  haven't really  changed a whole lot  since the the civil war.  The distrust of the  "Damn  Yankees" and the stereotypes of the  Southern "Bubbas"  is still  far too evident.

tRump never  expected to win when  he   ran for the Presidency.  He looked at it as a way to get free exposure to  bolster  his businesses.  When  he found his populist campaign actually got him the support  and the money  of the Republicans  supporting him , gone was his originally professed  self financing of his campaign. His narcissism  kicked in .  His  understanding  of how government works is lacking in the extreme as is  his focus on himself. He spends more time golfing than he does listening to advisors and dealing with the affairs of the nation.  Unfortunately  his cult members refuse to see  that  just  as those in the religious cults fail to see the failing of their leaders.  It is claimed  breaking someone  from self destructive cults  is one of the hardest jobs  psychologists have.  tRumps support,  to  me and a lot of others  in the US  and outside at least,  is evident of that .. No amount  of  accusations and evidence of his misdeeds  will  sway  his "true believers".

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@davefrombc you missed your calling as a left wing US politician with the likes of AOC and the rest of them...lol. The reality is that the majority (even Democrats) don’t think like you do or give a crap about globalization. Most Americans aren’t globalists and could care less about what happens outside these borders. In addition to that, to call 70+ million Americans “cult members” is the same crap that Hillary did by calling them “deplorables”. 

What you missed in your “map” is that the northeast is not all blue. It’s red outside the metro areas. NY voted Democrat because of NYC. Democrats always win large populated city/metro areas, where this ideology flourishes. 

The real reality is that this country has been going down hill since Obama. You have no idea what goes on in education, business, and other sectors that are killing this country. Trump reversed and stopped only some of that. Biden intends to get back “on course”. The objective is to weaken America and if you don’t see that, you will, when the US will not be able to protect you Canadians, and Chinese bases pop up in your backyard. You should want the US to be the most powerful in the world, for your own protection. Democrats are incapable of protecting the US, they just break it down. Be careful what you wish for! 

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1 hour ago, quadmaniac said:

@davefrombc you missed your calling as a left wing US politician with the likes of AOC and the rest of them...lol. The reality is that the majority (even Democrats) don’t think like you do or give a crap about globalization. Most Americans aren’t globalists and could care less about what happens outside these borders. In addition to that, to call 70+ million Americans “cult members” is the same crap that Hillary did by calling them “deplorables”. 

What you missed in your “map” is that the northeast is not all blue. It’s red outside the metro areas. NY voted Democrat because of NYC. Democrats always win large populated city/metro areas, where this ideology flourishes. 

The real reality is that this country has been going down hill since Obama. You have no idea what goes on in education, business, and other sectors that are killing this country. Trump reversed and stopped only some of that. Biden intends to get back “on course”. The objective is to weaken America and if you don’t see that, you will, when the US will not be able to protect you Canadians, and Chinese bases pop up in your backyard. You should want the US to be the most powerful in the world, for your own protection. Democrats are incapable of protecting the US, they just break it down. Be careful what you wish for! 

I rest my case. Thanks for confirming it .

 

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Gee you guys.. And that's what I was talking about.. division, animosity.. It's what T has been breeding ever since he ran the first time. And the hoped for animosity and division he's been trying to breed isn't just within America, it's a worldwide attempt.

He's taken America out of world trade negotiations, and suggested that we all(who all get along and do trade) shouldn't be because it disadvantages America.. Well hell yeah it does if he won't negotiate.. but he claims to be Mr Negotiation.

He's pulled out of the world's peacekeeping body. the U.N., because he reckons it's bad for America.. But America has the longest history of anyone for causing wars, in other people's countries...

He's pulled out of and sought to discredit the world health organization. He's alternately told you Americans that the virus is a Chinese plot, a biological weapon from a lab over there, and then in the next breath that's it's nothing, and don't wear masks.

He's tried real hard to provoke a war with North Korea, he's accused the Russians of interfering in American politics(while America has a long history taking of out rulers and installing new people of their choosing all over the world for decades.)

He bad mouths, and started a trade war with China, which I hear has done your economy no good.

He's been supporting racial disharmony and preaching anarchy within your country, then trying to impose martial law, he's inviting a bunch of red-neck neo-nazis to "stand by and stand ready", and now, even as he leaves, he's trying his best to discredit the democratic process, to destroy it, and for just under half of your citizens to rise up and take the country back and to put him in charge again...  It's treason.. from start to finish.. and even now as he's going down he's pardoning anyone that's aided him in this treason.

 

Yeah Dave from B.C., we outside of America have always realised that America doesn't recognise countries outside of America, that vast parts of the population don't even know where New Zealand is, and that they think America is a power unto itself, able, qualified and at liberty to do what it wants.. And that is scary and worrying enough, without this new advocacy of the breakdown of law, of the destruction of the institutions that maintain law, of the discrediting and attempts to subvert the democratic process, and the attempts bring about the downfall of what was once, despite it's arrogance, a great country.

I don't think the man's an idiot, I think he has an agenda. I think he's working in his interests, and is and will sell out his own country as quick as he'll do anything to turn a buck. I think he does have an agenda to sell out his country, probably for some financial gain, but given the perversity of the man, it could just be that.. perversity.. because he hasn't been able to get what he's wanted some time.. more money perhaps, some sort of power he needs because he's a pathetic individual and knows it in his heart.. I can't comprehend the depth of it.. but it's perverse and fickle... The country that's done him so well, he's destroying.

And what do the people complain about.. Their health-care plans.. 

It's treason and he should be charged with it..

The American people should have more pride in themselves and their country than to allow it.

I have no axe to grind, but that's how it looks from here, and you know,  I suspect it's how the majority of the people of the world see it.. 

We in New Zealand, we are doing fine, because we have a great leader, a leader born to the role, like a Kennedy, someone born into a household where politics and diplomacy and governance was discussed at the dining table all their life.

The American people should look long and hard at themselves and at what they have got.

Rant over..

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Why is it that other countries complain that America wants to take care of itself first. It’s a country with borders, we aren’t in a one world order here. Every country should put their interests first. If you want to be part of America, move to America. But to comment outside of this country on this country’s internal affairs, is a bit silly in my opinion. Everyone has an opinion even if they don’t live in the country, however, I wouldn’t dare say anything about Canada or other country not living there. It’s hard to take these comments seriously from non-Americans. Sorry guys, no disrespect intended and I enjoy reading your opinions, it’s just not reality for me.

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Well Quad.. It's because your ex-president thinks we shouldn't be doing trade deals, that's one reason, and because he seems hell bent on starting world war three.. That's another..  Those things effect us.

The world's a small place now, the idea that we should all be isolationists and put our country first.. I think those days are gone. Most of the world wants a world of peace and trade. Most of the world's getting along fine doing those things.

Mostly though, the reason I commented, is because of the animosity he seems to be breeding in your country. I think that's a shame.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mech said:

The world's a small place now, the idea that we should all be isolationists and put our country first.. I think those days are gone.

I disagree. The world did not shrink, it just got more connected with technology. I don’t want to live in a country that doesn’t put its citizens and country first, that’s just ridiculous.

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6 hours ago, Mech said:

Mostly though, the reason I commented, is because of the animosity he seems to be breeding in your country. I think that's a shame.

So what's the solution?

First of all, it's not Trump breeding it... he is exposing the corrupt government and now we have the rebels and the loyalists once again.  Trump is a symptom, not a cause, and now after the shenanigans he is martyr which is the worst outcome.

Chris Hedges put it: "Biden is a shallow political hack devoid of fixed beliefs or intellectual or moral depth, he is an expression of the nostalgia of a ruling class that yearns to return to the pantomime of democracy.  The ruling elites want to restore the decorum and civic religion that makes the presidency a form of monarchy and sacralizes the organs of state power. Trump's vulgarity and ineptitude are an embarrassment to the architects of empire."

There you have it.  Once again we have those loyal to the crown against those rebelling.  We want a government representative of the people, not an aristocracy shoving their idealisms down our throats.

"Biden is responsible for far more suffering and death at home and abroad than Trump and, if we had a functioning judicial and legislative system, Biden along with the other architects of our disastrous imperial wars, corporate plundering of the country, and betrayal of the american working class would be put on trial, not offered up as a solution to our political and economic debacle." 

 

Two elections were rigged to get that guy in power.  I doubt the American people are simply going to agree to disagree so we can all get along.

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Far too many fail to realize it is foreign trade that pays the bills at home .. American  industry and agriculture would be in terrible shape if they could only deal  in domestic markets . every country  depends on trade with other countries. It's what pays the big bills and employs people .  When you have friends and family on both sides of the border  and  your job depends  on  international  trade  you  also  should   understand  at least something about others . Yes,  quadmaniac  I know a little  about US  education.  As I said it's hard not to when you have family and friends in both countries .  I  don't  know how it is  now  but I would guess it  isn't a lot different when  I was in school in the '50's.  Most of our text books were  printed in the  US and very heavy  with US content  with a nod to  our own  history  and a mention there were other countries ut there somewhere.

The right  in the US  likes to vilify anyone in the center and  left. Accusations against the Clintons, , Biden  and others before them  are constantly being made without a shred of evidence of wrongdoing  despite  investigation after investigation. Mention  social  reforms and programs that benefit all , not  just the rich  and you get the screams  of  "SOCIALISM,  COMMUNISM"  without  any understanding of  what  both of those  systems are and  that they  are unworkable  except in very small  communities,  but the   military / industrial  powers  have used those scare words to  keep control  for the last century.  Social  programs  and social  responsibility are  not  communism  ... and democracy  is a  form  of socialism.  Without socialism  you do not have a society.  Where do you think the word came from?   If you are a Christian  and believe in Christ's principles and teaching  then if you put them  into   practice , you are practicing  socialism.   tRump   has been dividing the country  not  for any particular agenda.  He is a narcissist, thinking only of himself .He   has no empathy , or responsibility . Everything he does   is to try to enhance himself and he  couldn't care less   who  it  hurts as long as he gets what he wants . He  is a product of the worst of America , not the best.

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Yup.. Here it's big business that does nearly all the exporting, and they pay most of the taxes.. and dividends. And it's the taxes, corporate and private, that give us a free health system, education, social security, and all the infrastructure...

And we have good relations, and cooperative trade arrangements, that benefit everyone involved.  

Not only that.. People like Kiwis.. We go on peacekeeping missions.. armed with guitars, not guns..  Haha.. seriously.. We send out male and female peacekeepers and they leave their guns behind..  And it works, where years and years of armed attempts have failed..

And we've got the "America's Cup"... hehe.

 

I'll shut up now...

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1 hour ago, Mech said:

And it's the taxes, corporate and private, that give us a free health system, education, social security, and all the infrastructure...

US - 37% individual top rate, 21% corporate, 0% sales tax, 15.3% social security of which employer pays half.

Canada - 33% individual top rate, 26.5% corporate, 5% sales tax, 14% social security of which employer pays over half.

New Zealand - 33% individual top rate, 28% corporate, 15% sales tax, employee pays 8% and employers pays 3% social security tax.

https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/personal-income-tax-rate

New Zealand taxes the poor more than US and Canada.

It takes a decade to become a NZ citizen, but billionaires are instant.  Kiwis should wise up.

I don't think any US state has more than a 10% sales tax and it's usually only in states with zero income tax.

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Most people pay a lot less personal tax than that site you cite says. I was self employed and paid about ten percent. My sons are both self employed and pay about ten percent. We don't have a social security tax. We have a voluntary retirement fund you can join, and the govt and employer both contribute if you do. We have a tax on consumption, called GST, it's 15%.  We pay a tax on land we own which pays for local infrastructure, libraries, pools, non-highway roading, public halls etc.

We have very few homeless people living on the street, and they are often doing it by choice.. mostly young people. Health care is free and income support is available to all. The govt pays a pension fund to everyone over 65 no matter your circumstances.The govt has public housing which at the moment is short of houses following a big sell off a few years ago of old stock. There's a building initiative on at the moment to correct that, in the meantime they are providing "emergency housing", in motels.

People in New Zealand are well taken care of and there is practically no racial or any other sort of discrimination. Discrimination because of race, religion, sexuality, or impairment of any sort is banned and enforced by law.

Most people enjoy a good standard of living.

 

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So tell me what your grudge with New Zealand is, and I'll see if I can answer them for you.

I'm not sure what the relevance of citizenship is unless you think we are sellouts for money.. We aren't. We are an independent lot..  Check out our nuclear free policies which was one source of disagreement with America when we first implemented it. America seems to have accepted we make our own choices. Check out our policies on free trade. We are very careful to remain independent on all matters on the world stage, and get respected for it.

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And just to reiterate J, and others, my beef with the ex-big T is that's he's been trying to curb free trade, which effects us down here, and that he's a threat to world peace, which effects us down here

If you think we, little old New Zealand, is stepping on your toes in some way. well I'm happy to discuss that.. 

Fire away with any genuine concerns or criticisms..

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The top rate taxes have little bearing on the real world taxes paid . Those top rates are on net  income after all deductions.  Far too many  millionaires  pay  less income taxes  than the  cashiers at  local stores  or  service workers . Far to  many corporations that  were profitable end up  paying zero  taxes  and claim subsidies  in both the  US  and  Canada.  There's  another factor  never  considered in  when surveys comparing taxes  are quoted.  What are those taxes paying for ?   How  much goes  into social programs and infrastructure,  things that benefit everyone  and  how  much goes into  military spending in the desire to be the  dominant  power in the world?  How many  of those tax dollars go into   programs  that help internationally  and build friends for the country  and how  much of it is spent  on actions bringing hatred  to  those trying to  dominate and exploit other countries resources ?

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