04 Yamaha Beartracker No electric start, No neutral/reverse lights, only starts with screwdriver to both relay terminals

[PeteSaracen]

Im fixing up a beartracker 250. Starts right up with screwdriver to both solenoid terminals and pull start. Doesnt start at all with electric start button.  Neutral light and reverse light come on when the atv is running but when it is off and the key is turned to on position, no lights come on. When button is pressed to start, nothing happens. No click in solenoid, nothing. Not too experienced with the electrical components but I have tested a few things. The Front stop switch assembly cable was broken so I replaced that hoping it would fix my electrical problem to the key bevel but still nothing. 

[PeteSaracen]

13 hours ago, PeteSaracen said:

Im fixing up a beartracker 250. Starts right up with screwdriver to both solenoid terminals and pull start. Doesnt start at all with electric start button.  Neutral light and reverse light come on when the atv is running but when it is off and the key is turned to on position, no lights come on. When button is pressed to start, nothing happens. No click in solenoid, nothing. Not too experienced with the electrical components but I have tested a few things. The Front stop switch assembly cable was broken so I replaced that hoping it would fix my electrical problem to the key bevel but still nothing. 

Forgot to mention, lights dont turn on either ( front and rear) 

[Tom Bauer]

dead battery

[PeteSaracen]

19 minutes ago, Tom Bauer said:

dead battery

Definitely not, battery is brand new, measures 12.8 volts 

[Tom Bauer]

No lights of any kind? Neutral light has to come on for starter to work, go from there. Could be as simple as a blown fuse if the charging system is powering the bike running but the battery is not powering anything.

[PeteSaracen]

neutral light doesnt remain constantly on at the turn of the key to the on position. But when you are starting the engine and it cranks, the neutral light flashes as the engine is turning on and once the engine is on the neutral and reverse lights both work. Its properly grounded and the bulbs are good since they work when the atv is running. its just nothing comes on when the motor is off and the atv is turned to on position. The fuses on the solenoid by the battery are good, is there anywhere else i should check for fuses?

[davefrombc]

I  don't know if the  ignition switch  grounds to turn a main solenoid to power up the quad or if there is supposed to be power to the ignition switch. That you'd have to see from the  wiring diagram. You are not getting power to the system s  check to see if you have power to the ignition switch.  My guess is there is supposed  to  be power to it and from the switch to the rest of the system since the quad runs when ignition is on and you jumper the start solenoid. Look for a  broken  wire to the ignition switch.  There is an  obvious disconnect  between the battery and the system so it's either a broken wire or a bad master solenoid.

 

[PeteSaracen]

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

I  don't know if the  ignition switch  grounds to turn a main solenoid to power up the quad or if there is supposed to be power to the ignition switch. That you'd have to see from the  wiring diagram. You are not getting power to the system s  check to see if you have power to the ignition switch.  My guess is there is supposed  to  be power to it and from the switch to the rest of the system since the quad runs when ignition is on and you jumper the start solenoid. Look for a  broken  wire to the ignition switch.  There is an  obvious disconnect  between the battery and the system so it's either a broken wire or a bad master solenoid.

 

I dont know either but I will attach the wiringg diagram maybe you could help me out with that. As far as the wiring goes in the switch, Ive tested those wires for continuity and theyre all good meaning there is no break in the wires anywhere in the system. Just to confirm, by ignition switch you mean the starter button right? As far as testing for voltage in that goes i checked and theres no power to any wires. To make sure im not doing it wrong, one test lead goes to the ground of the machine and the other lead goes to the wire right? 

[davefrombc]

The ignition switch is the keyed switch, not the starter button..  When you turn the key on  you should get lights.  The safety switches only  stop the starter button  from running the starter. Since you say there are no lights or anything else until you start the motor by jumpering the star solenoid and there is when the motor is running ,that tells me there is a  disconnect between the battery and the quad.  I take it you can stop the quad by turning the ignition switch off.  Sorry I can't help on that  diagram. It doesn't come up large and clear enough on my screen. When  checking for power on a wire , yes , one lead goes to ground and the other to the probe  on the wire you are checking. If your quad uses a master  solenoid that the ignition switch turns  on ,I would suspect it . If it does not have a master relay and the power for everything goes directly to the ignition switch then there must be a break somewhere in that wire .

 

[PeteSaracen]

18 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

The ignition switch is the keyed switch, not the starter button..  When you turn the key on  you should get lights.  The safety switches only  stop the starter button  from running the starter. Since you say there are no lights or anything else until you start the motor by jumpering the star solenoid and there is when the motor is running ,that tells me there is a  disconnect between the battery and the quad.  I take it you can stop the quad by turning the ignition switch off.  Sorry I can't help on that  diagram. It doesn't come up large and clear enough on my screen. When  checking for power on a wire , yes , one lead goes to ground and the other to the probe  on the wire you are checking. If your quad uses a master  solenoid that the ignition switch turns  on ,I would suspect it . If it does not have a master relay and the power for everything goes directly to the ignition switch then there must be a break somewhere in that wire .

 

Alright well im not sure if it has a master solenoid or if what im thinking of is the master solenoid, but its connected to the battery and has two fuses on it (circled red and blue in picture). I tested that to see if it works, when supplied power, the solenoid clicks and I tested for continuity to make sure the power connects and it does have continuity. As far as the wire goes, it has only two wires coming out of the key port, a red wire and a brown wire. I tested both for continuity from the connect point all the way back to the battery and there is no breaks in the wire as it does have continuity. Maybe you think it could be a bad CDI box? or ive also been told it could be a bad neutral relay (circled yellow in picture).  It has a starter relay and a neutral relay, the starter relay is where the wire from the key bevel goes and the neutral relay is where the wires from the neutral safety switch and from the starter button go. Also, i havent tried turning the key to off position to turn off quad while its running but i do turn it off with the little red kill switch above the starter button that reads “engine: run, off”. when i turn it to off it does turn off the quad. 

[davefrombc]

The red button  you're stopping the motor with  is a "kill switch" normally only used as an emergency stop on most quads.   With the ignition switch  on you should have head lights  and all other indicator lights  like the neutral  light.   The starter relay  may  be a double relay . Heavy red wire  your main  power,  one wire to turn  on the main power relay and the other the push button signal wire to  pull in the starter. The CDI  box  must be ok  since  CDI  is Capacitor Discharge Ignition. If it was bad the motor wouldn't run.   The two connections circled in red  should be  the main wire from the battery  and the wire going to  the starter.  I'm sorry  I can't help  beyond that. All  I can do is  make guesses from the information you've given  me. One obvious question  I should have asked.  Does the  quadrun with the key turned off and you  jumper  the solenoid to run the starter ?  It shouldn't .   If the quad only runs when the key is turned on and you  jumper the solenoid to  start it  you know there is no power going through the  key switch to  run the machine . There is a disconnect from the battery to the system,  it  goes either through the ignition switch itself or through a relay controlled by the ignition switch.

[PeteSaracen]

10 hours ago, davefrombc said:

The red button  you're stopping the motor with  is a "kill switch" normally only used as an emergency stop on most quads.   With the ignition switch  on you should have head lights  and all other indicator lights  like the neutral  light.   The starter relay  may  be a double relay . Heavy red wire  your main  power,  one wire to turn  on the main power relay and the other the push button signal wire to  pull in the starter. The CDI  box  must be ok  since  CDI  is Capacitor Discharge Ignition. If it was bad the motor wouldn't run.   The two connections circled in red  should be  the main wire from the battery  and the wire going to  the starter.  I'm sorry  I can't help  beyond that. All  I can do is  make guesses from the information you've given  me. One obvious question  I should have asked.  Does the  quadrun with the key turned off and you  jumper  the solenoid to run the starter ?  It shouldn't .   If the quad only runs when the key is turned on and you  jumper the solenoid to  start it  you know there is no power going through the  key switch to  run the machine . There is a disconnect from the battery to the system,  it  goes either through the ignition switch itself or through a relay controlled by the ignition switch.

The quad doesnt start when the key is in the off position. When i try to jump it while its in off position the motor cranks but it never turns on unless the keys to the on position. I was testing out some wires last night but now i am getting no spark at my spark plug. Now gotta figure that whole thing out. As far as the electric goes, do you think i should buy new parts like a new key bevel and new solenoid and relay? or are all my parts good and the problem is just my wiring. 

[davefrombc]

My guess is it is just the wiring or a solenoid  delivering power to the ignition switch. You  know the ignition switch is working  because when it is on the quad and all lights work.

Check your wiring diagram  and work slowly . I would  look at the  relay you have  circled with the red and blue. Try  a jumper from the  battery positive terminal to the red wire in the blue  circle .. Just take  a thin wire  from the battery  and with the key switch on poke the wire down  into that terminal so  it touches the brass end  you can see on the wire . If that is in fact your main power wire  you should see the lights  light up .  If that is the case then  it is the starter solenoid / relay is a dual  purpose one and the ignition power side of it is bad.

[Tom Bauer]

This is an extremely simple system and common to most Yamaha starting circuits. You have a 12v test light? Start at the battery positive. Power goes from there to the red wire at ign switch, then brown wire to lights. If lights do not work then nothing will. You have to have power at the starting circuit relay red/white and green/yellow must be grounded. Put battery power on the blue/white and see if starter works.

[PeteSaracen]

4 hours ago, davefrombc said:

My guess is it is just the wiring or a solenoid  delivering power to the ignition switch. You  know the ignition switch is working  because when it is on the quad and all lights work.

Check your wiring diagram  and work slowly . I would  look at the  relay you have  circled with the red and blue. Try  a jumper from the  battery positive terminal to the red wire in the blue  circle .. Just take  a thin wire  from the battery  and with the key switch on poke the wire down  into that terminal so  it touches the brass end  you can see on the wire . If that is in fact your main power wire  you should see the lights  light up .  If that is the case then  it is the starter solenoid / relay is a dual  purpose one and the ignition power side of it is bad.

alright will try that when i get the chance but wont be able too until the weekend because thats where the quad is located. If i do get lights on at the switch then its a bad relay and i should replace it? 

4 hours ago, Tom Bauer said:

This is an extremely simple system and common to most Yamaha starting circuits. You have a 12v test light? Start at the battery positive. Power goes from there to the red wire at ign switch, then brown wire to lights. If lights do not work then nothing will. You have to have power at the starting circuit relay red/white and green/yellow must be grounded. Put battery power on the blue/white and see if starter works.

I do have a circuit tester with the little light bulb in it that you attach to the battery negative terminal and it lights up when you touch the wires. Is the brown wire for the lights supposed to come back to the battery post area to get power because I cant locate the brown wire for the lights anywhere near the battery area. Also, i know you said the green and yellow should be grounded but is the red white also supposed to be grounded or is it supposed to have voltage? 

[davefrombc]

If you have the key switch on and jumper from the battery positive post to the red wire on that relay and the lights come on it is most likely the  relay. The brown wire and the other two smaller wires at the key switch got to the other indicator lights.   I was able to  magnify your  wiring diagram  some and see the orange highlighted circuit  is the key switch.  I still  can't see it well enough to  make out the color coding.  If there is a heavy red wire  at the key switch  it should be the power wire to the switch .  Run a wire directly from the positive post of the battery to that connection and the key switch turned to run   and you should have everything powered up. One thing I  should mention and have just been  assuming....  Is that  white connector  pushed all  the way  down  into  its socket and both those 30 amp fuses ok?  It could be  as simple as a bad connection there or blown  fuse.  Hopefully Tom  will  chime in here  and either confirm  my guesses  or offer  more insight on getting power to the key switch.

[PeteSaracen]

2 hours ago, davefrombc said:

If you have the key switch on and jumper from the battery positive post to the red wire on that relay and the lights come on it is most likely the  relay. The brown wire and the other two smaller wires at the key switch got to the other indicator lights.   I was able to  magnify your  wiring diagram  some and see the orange highlighted circuit  is the key switch.  I still  can't see it well enough to  make out the color coding.  If there is a heavy red wire  at the key switch  it should be the power wire to the switch .  Run a wire directly from the positive post of the battery to that connection and the key switch turned to run   and you should have everything powered up. One thing I  should mention and have just been  assuming....  Is that  white connector  pushed all  the way  down  into  its socket and both those 30 amp fuses ok?  It could be  as simple as a bad connection there or blown  fuse.  Hopefully Tom  will  chime in here  and either confirm  my guesses  or offer  more insight on getting power to the key switch.

Thank you so much i will try it when i get the chance and get back to you. I did want to mention tho, the ignition key only has the two wires coming out of it brown and red, the red wire goes back to the battery and im not sure where the brown goes although im pretty sure its to the headlights. the white connector is pushed all the way down and i was wondering maybe that connector could be broken. both fuses are good neither are blown. 

[davefrombc]

OK.  The brown wire from the ignition switch goes to  another block and from there to the rest of the system  you should have power to that red wire at the switch. I'm pretty sure the red wire down at the  starter relay is the other end of it  and it is either broken or possibly corrosion  in the connector  is cutting off the power.  Try running a wire directly from the  B+ to the  ignition switch. If that  allows everything to  turn  on  ans the starter to run on the start button you know the problem is in that wire or  at the other end of it. When you have that new wire temporarily  connected to the switch with the old red wire check to  see if there is power to the red wire at the relay. If there is you know the problem  is at the relay  and either the relay or the connector is bad.

 

[PeteSaracen]

2 hours ago, davefrombc said:

OK.  The brown wire from the ignition switch goes to  another block and from there to the rest of the system  you should have power to that red wire at the switch. I'm pretty sure the red wire down at the  starter relay is the other end of it  and it is either broken or possibly corrosion  in the connector  is cutting off the power.  Try running a wire directly from the  B+ to the  ignition switch. If that  allows everything to  turn  on  ans the starter to run on the start button you know the problem is in that wire or  at the other end of it. When you have that new wire temporarily  connected to the switch with the old red wire check to  see if there is power to the red wire at the relay. If there is you know the problem  is at the relay  and either the relay or the connector is bad.

 

Okay sounds good, i tested the red wire for continuity to make sure theres no breaks in the line and it does have continuity from the key to the white connecter at the relay so i know the wires not broken, im pretty sure its a bad connector because its very cut up and i doubt it makes contact with the power terminal of the relay. if this is the case should i rewire it and buy a new connector and put those three wires on the new connector or should i just leave the old connector and buy the new relay? 

[davefrombc]

Try  just going from battery to the red wire and see if it powers it up.  If it does then see if a new connector  will fix it . Connectors  are a lot cheaper than relays

[PeteSaracen]

Alright so I gave power to the red wire at the connector and the lights came right on. I gave power to the blue/white wire and the start button started her right up. Im guessing it’s definitely a bad relay/solenoid since the power isnt coming to it from the battery, none of the wires have power at the turn of the key switch

[davefrombc]

Trace the  red wire back from the  ignition switch to the battery to see if there is a break there  or  a bad connection.  There  is likely not a solenoid/ relay  on that wire  but  just  a break or bad connection at one end of the wire or the other.

[PeteSaracen]

Well i tested both end of the wire for continuity and theres no break in the line. When the key is turned there is no voltage coming from the battery to the plug section of the solenoid. I used the 12v test light on the red wire when the key is turned to on position and theres nothing. The connectors are fine too because i gave it power from the bottom port of the connector where it plugs in and the power went through the wire all the way to the front at the key fine. Ill upload a video tomorrow if itll make more sense. the power is not going from the terminals circled in red to the white connector in the blue circle 

[davefrombc]

Double check the fuses  and the terminal  in the socket the red wire connects to  You may need to replace that assembly if there is corrosion  in the socket preventing proper contact

[PeteSaracen]

i checked the fuses theyre clean and the terminals in the socket are all clean, its probably something bad inside the relay that the magnet isnt properly coming up and sending the power to the plugs in the back where the white connector circled in blue plugs in, i ordered it i believe it comes tomorrow and we’ll see if that solves the problem 

[davefrombc]

Check the fuses for continuity.  I've had ones that looked good but  actually  were open.

 

[PeteSaracen]

Just changed the solenoid, everything works perfectly fine now. All lights turn on at turn of the key and the engine starts right up with the push button start. Now i just gotta tidy up the plastics and its all good. Thanks a lot for the help, you guys are life savers !!!!!