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China virus


Wagnerc

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On 3/1/2021 at 10:41 AM, davefrombc said:

Masks are not a joke.

 

From https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

This document, which is an update of the guidance published on 5 June 2020, includes new scientific evidence relevant to the use of masks for reducing the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and practical considerations.

However, the use of a mask alone, even when correctly used (see below), is insufficient to provide an adequate level of protection for an uninfected individual or prevent onward transmission from an infected individual (source control).

Systematic reviews have reported that the use of N95/P2 respirators compared with the use of medical masks (see mask definitions, above) is not associated with statistically significant differences for the outcomes of health workers acquiring clinical respiratory illness, influenza-like illness (risk ratio 0.83, 95%CI 0.63-1.08) or laboratory-confirmed influenza (risk ratio 1.02, 95%CI 0.73-1.43); harms were poorly reported and limited to discomfort associated with lower compliance.

Two studies found that implementation of a universal masking policy in hospital systems was associated with decreased risk of healthcare-acquired SARS-CoV-2 infection. However, these studies had serious limitations: both were before-after studies describing a single example of a phenomenon before and after an event of interest, with no concurrent control group, and other infection control measures were not controlled for (51, 52). In addition, observed decreases in health worker infections occurred too quickly to be attributable to the universal masking policy.


The potential harms and risks of mask and respirator use in the health facility setting include:

1) contamination of the mask due to its manipulation by contaminated hands (53, 54);
2) potential self-contamination that can occur if medical masks are not changed when wet, soiled or damaged; or by frequent touching/adjusting when worn for prolonged periods (55);
3) possible development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours (56-58);
4) discomfort, facial temperature changes and headaches from mask wearing (44, 59, 60);
5) false sense of security leading potentially to reduced adherence to well recognized preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene; and risk-taking behaviours (61-64);
6) difficulty wearing a mask in hot and humid environments


At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76). A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI. 

Masks are a joke.

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However much some try to deny the effectiveness of masks in HELPING to  limit the spread of the virus , the fact is the anti-maskers and those that refuse to  practice social distancing are the very reason the pandemic is still as bad as it is.  It amazes me  how some people  can  ignore the WHO  and the vast   majority of doctors everywhere to  listen to the conspiracy theorists and the  very small  minority  that pooh pooh the recommendations of the world wide medical community.    Flu  is way down simply  because the measures taken  by the  majority  to try to  limit COVID  also are effective against the flu. Less exposure,  less infection.   Look at  New Zealand  and to a  lesser extent ,  Australia  and other nations who took the pandemic seriously and did what's necessary to  limit it as much as possible.   Then  look  at what's happening in areas of  the US and Canada where the   strongest  refusal  to  follow recommendations because of their   inane sense of " freedom".  It would be  nice if they'd learn  what real freedom  is .  It  is not  the freedom to possibly infect  others because you  don't want to be inconvenienced  for  your own  good and that of others .

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18 minutes ago, Freedomflyer said:

Okay, keep drinking the kool-aid 

We have some friends who are missionaries and are on total lockdown and have been since day one. If you are caught without a mask automatic $500 fine. Google the outbreak there and tell me how effective the mask is.

Enjoy your alternate universe.   I  prefer this one .

 

 

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1 hour ago, Freedomflyer said:

So my question is where did the flu go?

Flu didn't go anywhere.  I caught it in march and then battled bacterial pneumonia for a month and still haven't fully recovered.  According to the CDC my whole city has been a hotspot for flu.  Evidently, some places test for flu and some just assume covid.  When I tell people I had flu, they act disappointed that it wasn't covid and usually try to convince me it was.

Hallmarks of flu are sudden onset and high fever.  In my case, I went from feeling fine working outside on a sunny day to absolutely freezing my A off within 1 hour due to 103.5 fever.  Flu hits like a ton of bricks while covid onsets gradually with either low fever or no fever.  My fever got as high as 104.2 and probably brushed 105 a couple times, which is unheard of with covid.  Fevers that high feels like sticking your head in an oven.

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1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

It amazes me  how some people  can  ignore the WHO

Why does that amaze you since you just ignored WHO?

WHO --->  https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

WHO says "the use of a mask alone, even when correctly used (see below), is insufficient to provide an adequate level of protection for an uninfected individual or prevent onward transmission from an infected individual (source control)."

WHO says "At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76). A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI. "

So why do you ignore WHO and science?

No difference = does not help.

If masks do not help while people think they do, then that is called a false sense of security which leads to taking more risks.

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

Flu  is way down simply  because the measures taken  by the  majority  to try to  limit COVID  also are effective against the flu.

How do measures work against one 120nm ball, but not another 120nm ball?  Flu vaccines are between 30% and 50% effective, so even if marginally more people took the flu vaccine it would not explain the complete eradication of flu.

The only sensible explanation is flu cases are being called covid cases.

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

Look at  New Zealand  and to a  lesser extent ,  Australia

I'm anxious to look at Australia during their coming winter (flu) season to see how they fare.

People think covid cases declined because of the vaccine but I think they would have waned anyway just due to seasonality and to confirm that I will be watching Australia during their coming winter.

 

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Read and understand the WHO  article you quote.. Use of masks alone will  not  reduce the incidence significantly  .. They are  only one part of the measures needed.   Vaccines aren't the reason  flu was down  considerably ..  It was use of masks and  the other measures to  limit COVID  exposure that  helped reduce  the rate  last winter. You can follow your  right wing  denial  sources all  you want . I  know full well there's nothing I  or anyone else not on the extreme right can change your mind.  98% +   of the world is wrong.  Only  the  true believers of the far  right have all the answers.  As I said before to Freedomflyer ,  enjoy your alternate universe .

 

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17 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Use of masks alone will  not  reduce the incidence significantly 

The use of a rabbit's foot alone will not reduce the incidence either.

17 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Read and understand the WHO  article you quote

Read this real slow:

WHO says "A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76)."

"A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI. "

Btw, masks didn't work in 1918 either  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1362677/

For 100 years there has not been evidence masks work and there never will be because masks are a ludicrous idea, which is why Fauci ridiculed them in March 2020 before masks became political weapons.

All that masks accomplish is a false sense of security that causes people to take more risks than they would if not for the false security.

For more proof, try mowing the lawn after a case of pneumonia and you will quickly discover how useless masks are.  Respirators with the canisters on the sides are the only thing that works because that's the only thing that seals tight against the face.

Surgeons wear masks to stop bacteria, not viruses.  Hospitals are cold because it's easier to dehumidify cold air and cold/dry air harms bacteria (but benefits viruses).  Hospitals don't focus on viruses because there is nothing they can do to stop them, but combating bacteria is fairly straightforward.

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

Vaccines aren't the reason  flu was down  considerably ..  It was use of masks and  the other measures to  limit COVID  exposure

How do masks stop one 120nm ball but not another 120nm ball?  The covid cases were rising caused by one 120nm ball, but the flu cases went extinct which were caused by another 120nm ball.  So how do masks stop one 120nm ball, but have zero effect on the other 120nm ball?  <---- please answer that question!

The 120nm ball called covid went up in flu season.

The 120nm ball called flu went down in flu season.

How does a mask accomplish such magic?

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The point is masks don't stop all of them , but most, and  if worn  by the one infectious and the one  possible victim. It REDUCES  the spread , doesn't stop it just as  masks reduce the chance of   spreading  infection in operating rooms.  Flu cases  have not gone "extinct" . They  have been greatly reduced in the last year simply  because the majority of the population  has been smart enough to  obey the recommendations  to  reduce the spread of  COVID  which at the same time  reduces the spread of flu among the unvaccinated.  I feel  sorry for you  if you can't understand a fact as simple as that.   COVID has gone up where there was the least acceptance  of the measures meant to  help reduce the spread..  Look  at the states  and counties where the infection rates are  highest .. They perfectly coincide with where refusal to  mask up  or social distance has been greatest.

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On 5/9/2021 at 10:35 PM, davefrombc said:

The point is masks don't stop all of them , but most

The evidence says masks make no difference, so they don't stop any portion, not even a wee little bit... and certainly not "most".

But even if masks stopped most or some or any, then we should see a proportional drop in prevalence of coronaviruses and flu viruses because they are exactly the same size.  IOW, if flu dropped by 50% then covid should drop by 50%.  Instead what we see is an explosion in the number of covid cases and the complete extermination of flu... during flu season!  That cannot be explained by masks or any other policy.

The only explanation that makes sense for why one 120nm ball is different from another 120nm ball is that flu cases are being classified as covid cases.

An admonishment of those doing that is actually published:

"Clinicians can neither rule out other co-infections caused by respiratory pathogens by diagnosing SARS-CoV-2 infection nor rule out COVID-19 by detection of non-SARS-CoV-2 respiratory pathogens."  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7245213/

Just because you have a positive covid test doesn't mean you don't have influenza or any one of 1000 other things.

The study continues:  "The recent community-acquired pneumonia (CAP) guidelines by the American Thoracic Society (ATS) and Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA) recommended initial antibacterial treatment for adults with CAP who test positive for influenza, because bacterial co-infections are a common and serious complication of influenza and it is difficult to exclude the presence of bacterial co-infection in a patient with CAP who tested positive for influenza virus.5 Based on previous studies on severe coronavirus infections, serological evidence among SARS patients indicated incidences of acute or recent Chlamydophila pneumoniae (30%) or Mycoplasma pneumoniae (9%) infection, respectively.6 Furthermore, SARS and human metapneumovirus co-infection were reported during a major nosocomial SARS outbreak in Hong Kong.7 Moreover, co-infection of the Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) with influenza and tuberculosis has been reported.8 , 9 A multicenter retrospective cohort study of critically ill patients with MERS-CoV demonstrated that 18% and 5% had bacterial and viral co-infections, respectively.10 These findings indicate the possibility of co-infection with coronaviruses and other respiratory pathogens."

Plus there are lots of false positives for covid.

And everyone I know wants me to have had covid so they can make it into a big deal.  People are just that way and they don't need additional financial or political incentive to fake covid diagnosis, even though hospitals do get more money for covid cases.

I nearly lost my voice and every representative I talked to on the phone was like "Is it covid?  Is it covid???"  One woman told me she had a 101.5 fever with covid and I said I have to take ibuprofen to get my fever DOWN to 101.5 so I can feel normal enough to get my chores done.  Her definition of hell was my definition of relief.

On 5/9/2021 at 10:35 PM, davefrombc said:

Flu cases  have not gone "extinct"

The NYT says vanished.  Vanished = extinct.

Screenshot_20210422-095914.thumb.jpg.8b938669ea83c29fc9f964aba43947a7.jpg

On 5/9/2021 at 10:35 PM, davefrombc said:

COVID has gone up where there was the least acceptance  of the measures meant to  help reduce the spread..

Why did covid cases go up?  You say "Because people were not obeying the government."

So why did flu cases decline?  You say "Because people were obeying the government."

You can't have it both ways.

If you find a republican place where people were not obeying the recommendations, then we would NOT expect to see a drop in flu cases.  If people were NOT obeying, and you say that is the reason why covid cases went up, then how can you explain the elimination of flu during flu season???

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Twist and spin the facts all you want . I  just hope nobody in your circles of contacts suffers from the reality and consequences of denying the  seriousness of the COVID pandemic and the steps to reduce its spread  until vaccines can at least reduce it to  a very low level.  It may have already  had enough mutations to  make it endemic like the flu  virus is so far ..  Have fun, I'm  done with this thread . There's no vaccine for stupid and no sense trying to  point to  fact with you lot .

 

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On 5/10/2021 at 10:27 AM, davefrombc said:

There's no vaccine for stupid

There is a vaccine for stupid.  To make me no longer stupid all you have to do is tell me how masks stop one 120nm ball but not another 120nm ball and I will no longer be stupid.

On 5/10/2021 at 10:27 AM, davefrombc said:

I'm  done with this thread .

Now you take your ball and go home.

New York Times says "Flu Has Vanished."  Lowest number of cases ever recorded.  But at the same time we had the highest number of coronavirus cases ever recorded.

How do masks cause the lowest number of flu cases ever recorded while at the same time allowing the highest coronavirus cases ever recorded?

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On 5/10/2021 at 10:27 AM, davefrombc said:

I  just hope nobody in your circles of contacts suffers from the reality and consequences of denying the  seriousness of the COVID

Everyone I know had a mild case about like what Joe Rogan described.  A couple people are begging for it.  One works in the covid unit at a rehab facility and she wants to test positive so she doesn't have to get tested anymore.  Her husband wants to test positive so he gets 2 weeks pad vacation.  Their son tested positive and had a slight cough, but the parents could not catch it.  Neither could all the grandparents.  Maybe they already had it and didn't know it.

Dad had it last year and his only symptom, mild fever, didn't stop him from pulling weeds every day.  I'm not sure if I caught it from dad or not, but if I did then I didn't know it.

Coming from someone who just suffered a month of pneumonia, covid doesn't scare me too much except for the loss of taste and smell.  That's permanent because it destroys the nerve cells which grow back wrong, so there is no fixing that.

I don't want covid, but I'm not naive enough to think masks are going to stop it.  I try to stay out of buildings as much as possible and use curbside pickup to stay away from people.

I caught the flu because I let someone come over to do her taxes.  We were both healthy on that wednesday, but she got sick sunday and I got it the next thursday.  I let my guard down one time and boom.  She spent a week in the hospital for pneumonia (where she got 2 negative covid tests) and I just toughed it out at home.  Masks would not have prevented it.  In fact, she works at walmart where she has to wear a mask all day and walmart is probably where she caught it, so she almost certainly caught the flu while wearing a mask.

I went through all my old emails and doctor records from childhood and I figure I've had the flu at least 20 times in my life.  I had the flu on my 1st birthday and spent 4 days in the hospital on IV.  I never get it from grocery stores or the community, but it's always someone I know giving it to me.  Masks would not have stopped any of it.

Masks may even make it worse:

 

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20 hours ago, Freedomflyer said:

No masks here, numbers continue to drop.........Hmmmmm amazing.

Have you heard of Kary Mullis?  He's the inventor of the pcr test and won the nobel prize for it.

He was a big pain in the butt for those wanting HIV to be the cause of AIDS.  Really, he just wanted to see the evidence, but no one could show him.

He insisted that his test could not be used to diagnose disease because it could find anything you want it to find.  And just because it found pieces of something resembling viral rna doesn't mean the person has a disease.

Imagine having Kary hanging around during this plandemic.  Imagine what a pain in the butt the inventor of the pcr would be.

So guess when Kary Mullis died.  Go on... take a wild guess.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis

Anyway, check out what Kary had to say about Fauci.

 

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