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05 king quad 700 maintenance ???


Krazo
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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE

 

replaced front diff seals around CV axles, new cv axles, new upper/lower ball joints, new wheel bearings, inside/outside seal around wheel bearing.  Did both left and right side.  first did left, then right.  filled the front diff with 75-90, drove it in front yard and parked it in garage. 

 

Now the fun starts.  I notice a small leak on the floor under the front diff, gear lube leaking out.  it looks like its coming out thru the new seal where the cv axle comes out of the differential.  AND its coming out both left and right.  so i cleaned it up a bit with brake clean, and planned to refill the front diff so I can pinpoint exactly where its leaking from.  Well, i decided to put a bit more gear oil in first,  I take out the 'level' plug then the fill plug.  I notice the gear oil is now draining out the level plug.  Apparently I must have really overfilled it when I first wrapped up all that work.  

 

SO, I decided to let it drain out the 'Level' plug hole until its done.  This is where I've stopped work.  I'm thinking that just maybe overfilling it caused too much pressure inside and thus it leaked out.  now that the gear oil level has dropped it where it should be, I'm hoping it will stop leaking.  I've got all the plugs back in and i'll drive it a bit tomorrow morning, park it and leave clean cardboard underneath to see if it leaks anything.  However I'm concerned that just maybe the aftermarket cv axles dont mate well with the suzuki brand front diff seals and leave some type of small enough gap for the gear oil to leak out.  

Pics to come of one cv axle where its mating to front diff.  you can see the gear oil about to drip off.

 

Any thoughts from the experts here?   

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There is a problem alright. The seals should stop oil even if it's over filled. It will almost certainly be that the shafts or the seals are the wrong size.. unless.. long shot here and please don't be offended... . you put the seals in facing the wrong way/back to front.. It has been done before.

If they were leaking before you replaced them, then you should check the diff breather isn't blocked, but  if it was pressurising you would have probably noticed a puff of air as you took the bung out.

The seals inner lip should be about a mill or two smaller diameter then the shaft. If you don't have verniers to measure the seal and shaft, watch as you push the shaft in and it should be possible to see the seal get spread a bit bigger diameter as the shaft goes in.

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I've already checked the breather and its not clogged.  That was my first thought, easiest to check.  

Its possible I put the seals in backwards as I've not replaced this type of seal before.  However I do think this is unlikely.  I'm sure that when I installed the seals I was mindful to install with the round spring on the inside of the differential.  

Assuming that draining the gear oil down to the 'level' plug will not solve this issue, and I don't think it will, I'll tear down one side to look into the mating of the cv axle into the seal.  All this work started bc I had one boot torn up on the left cv axle.  I threw away that axle but I saved the other.  well the new cv axles are aftermarket from Oreilly and I'm wondering if they are slightly different sizing where they mate to the seal.  Id like to measure both the OE and aftermarket cv axles to see how they compare.  I also have a new seal coming which I'll also measure.  prob should've ordered 2 new seals.  I'm disappointed I didn't check the seal sizing to cv axles before I installed.  

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You got the seals the right way, so it must be the wrong size somewhere.

is it leaking both sides ? That confirms the wrong size.

You wouldn't have put a groove in the aluminum as you levered the seals out ?

If you don't have any, get some vernier calipers, they can be got quite cheaply. They are the handiest measuring tool to have around the workshop. they measure inside, outside and depths.

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well, I think I finally found the issue.  I first tore down one side and pulled the after market cv axle to compare vs the oe I still have on hand.  They are nearly identical.  No differences in the areas where it mates with the differential seal.  So I went ahead and ordered another seal to compare with each axle.  It mounted the same to each axle.  Looking at the opposite side that wasn't torn apart, I could see a gap between the axle and seal that shouldn't have been there.  The seal and axle weren't mating properly (obviously that's why it leaked) but it was because the seal was installed incorrectly.  When I pulled the old seals I didn't pay enough attention to how they were mounted and when I put the new seals in, I set them flush with the differential.  that's the issue.  They need to protrude about 1/3 of the way out.  there's a collar on the seal that shows just how far to install and I missed it.  So, I now have one side done, waiting on the other seal to get here and I'll finish it up.  had I not ordered a new seal to compare, I never would have seen this.  3 pic, one is the improperly installed seal as it sits flush with the differential, another shows the profile of the seal where you see the collar and the last shows the seal installed correctly.

 

 

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never F ' n ending repair!!    

 

As I used a hub puller to remove the wheel hub from the spindle and wheel bearing, the outside edge of the wheel bearing snapped off the bearing and stayed on the wheel hub shaft.  So now I have to replace the wheel bearing and both seals again, as well as get a new wheel hub.  all parts ordered and on the way but GEEZ im so tired of working on this thing, ready for it to be done.  I can only hope this is the end of the front end work. no more issues PLEASE.

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Good work getting this far, keep your head up and look forward to that first ride. I picked up a 07 KQ 700 2 months ago with a blown motor and am now just getting down to splitting the cases for my crank rebuild. It's been fun, but you have to patient to get through the challenges. I found your post during the work and now realize there is a small group of KQ 700 owners. Your posts here are some of the most informative out there, thank you!

 

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Posted (edited)

well, it hasnt stopped.  I only work on this thing once every couple weeks if you havnt noticed. mightve been done if I had just finished what I started. but....

I got the new wheel hub and replaced the wheel bearing and seals.  BUT trying to install the wheel hub on the cv spline and thru the wheel bearing in the steering knuckle...its an extremely tight fit.  other side wasnt nearly this tight.  so i tapped it on with a hammer, and before I got it, I saw that the dust seal on the inside of the steering knuckle had a ripple in it and the spring was all kinked up and coming way out.  SO I pulled it all apart again and ordered a new dust seal.  should be here this weekend...hopefully.  anyway I think this repair has cost nearly as much as I paid for this thing...well not that much but seems like its never ending... 

Any tips on how to get the wheel hub to slide on the spindle and thru the wheel bearing with a little more ease?

Edited by Krazo
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Hi. Perseverance always wins..

Clean the shaft and it's splines, clean(using a small triangular file if necessary) the wheel hub's internal splines. grease it all, and then work the cv shaft through till it's all the way through the bearings and seal. I've done it in place by holding the whole hub in my hands and bumped it against the inner cv and diff, via the shaft, till it hammered gently through, but you need to be gentle doing that, or, if I've had the boot off the outer, or taken it off for the purpose, I've tapped on the inner end of the outer cv. You need to part rotate the shaft every few bumps/taps to ensure it's not trying to go in crookedly. It should go through easily, every bump or tap should sound and look/feel as though it has moved. If it's not progressing easily tap it back out again and check what's tight..  Once that's in right you should be able to refit the steering knuckle to the swing arms, and holding the cv from behind, gently tap the wheel flange on far enough to get the big nut on the center and pull it up tight. While tapping, or tightening the big nut to get the wheel flange on, make sure to rotate the whole thing every few taps or half turns of the nut.

All the bits, other than the bearings in the steering knuckle, should slide together firmly, about what we call a "thumb", or perhaps a "palm", fit. A thumb fit means you can press things in with a thumb, and a palm fit is a bit tighter and requires a palm to press the part in. Given that it's a bit inaccessible from behind, a tap or bump is ok to get the shaft through, and to get the wheel hub on. Once it's all together it's a good idea to tighten and then loosen the big nut, turn the wheel several times and then retighten the  big nut.. Better still turn the wheel hub while you are tightening the big nut.. It should when tightened up, turn with a little resistance but not be tight, or noisy, or feel rough/rumbly.

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No suggestions, but depending on age of the quad and amount of abuse, it will likely take some force. I'm sure by the time you read this, you have already got it disassembled?

Quote

Any tips on how to get the wheel hub to slide on the spindle and thru the wheel bearing with a little more ease?

 

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Yes, disassembly was not an issue.  Hub came out of the old wheel bearings with no issue.  but getting it back in with new wheel bearings has proved to be a real task.  Waiting on the inside dust seal of the steering knuckle.  Should arrive tomorrow.  once that gets here I can attempt reassembly again.  

 

Mech, the issue Im having is that the fit between the wheel bearing and the wheel hub is so snug, i'll have to beat on it with a hammer to get them to fit.  prob should try greasing the wheel hub a bit.  

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Oh.. I thought the cv shaft poked through the bearings til it butted up against the seal's shoulder on the shaft, (that should be a palm fit),  then the wheel's hub with disc, slides on splines, onto the outer end of the cv shaft, till the wheel hub butted up against the bearing. When the big nut gets done up it clamps the bearings between the cv's shoulder and the wheel hub. Without the nut being done up, and if everything is nice and clean and lubed, you should be able to knock it apart with the wooden end of your hammer handle.

If you are having trouble getting the wheel's hub onto the cv's spiines, where they are meant to slide on the splines, it might be the wrong number of splines on the shaft, or the bottom of the splines might be dirty on the wheel hub. A small triangular file is good to clean them.

The splines should slide together with a palm or light tap..

 

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On 4/10/2022 at 9:53 PM, Mech said:

Oh.. I thought the cv shaft poked through the bearings til it butted up against the seal's shoulder on the shaft, (that should be a palm fit),  then the wheel's hub with disc, slides on splines, onto the outer end of the cv shaft, till the wheel hub butted up against the bearing. When the big nut gets done up it clamps the bearings between the cv's shoulder and the wheel hub. Without the nut being done up, and if everything is nice and clean and lubed, you should be able to knock it apart with the wooden end of your hammer handle.

If you are having trouble getting the wheel's hub onto the cv's spiines, where they are meant to slide on the splines, it might be the wrong number of splines on the shaft, or the bottom of the splines might be dirty on the wheel hub. A small triangular file is good to clean them.

The splines should slide together with a palm or light tap..

 

Your correct in how it all assembles. I had no prob lining up the splines on the wheel hub, but as the hub slid through the wheel bearing, it was too tight of a fit to go all the way through.  I used a flapper disc on the inside of the wheel bearing to open it up slightly.  I shouldve taken off 1/8 of an inch and it wouldve still been a tight fit.  I had to take the cv axle out of the differential and stand it on end, line up the steering knuckle and wheel, then bang on the hub with an 8# hammer for 10 min just to get cv to poke through enough so I could thread on the big nut and tighten it up.  we'll see how well the u-joints in the cv hold up after the abuse.  But its all assembled now and fluid in the front diff. Ran it for 15 min in the yard then parked it.  

back to the original issue, the front diff was leaking at the seal with the CV axle, well after sitting overnight with fluid in it, no leaks as of this morning.  we'll see what it looks like later today but I'm optimistic that prob is solved.  on to the next.  which could be a short in the electrical system.  Battery was dead when I tried to start it yesterday.  it is a new battery, bought it 2.5 months ago.  charged it up overnight.  might just add in a ground to the frame and possibly a battery disconnect switch.  should solve the prob if theirs a slow drain due to short somewhere.

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Ok, well the bearings should tap easily onto the cv shaft so something is wrong there. Not in the hub or way you've done it, something not right with the dimensions on one part..  Good work fixing the leak though.

I'd try disconnecting the battery overnight or for a few days and check that the battery doesn't go flat by itself. Then I'd rig up an amp gauge and check for discharge when I reconnected the battery. It shouldn't have more than a few milliamps with the key off, two or five milliamps are probably ok, any more and there is a fault. Some voltage regulators are connected direct to the battery and don't get disconnected when the key gets turned off, the wiring diagram will show it. If the current draw is too much disconnect the reg and see if the discharge disappears.

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16 minutes ago, Mech said:

Ok, well the bearings should tap easily onto the cv shaft so something is wrong there. Not in the hub or way you've done it, something not right with the dimensions on one part..  Good work fixing the leak though.

I'd try disconnecting the battery overnight or for a few days and check that the battery doesn't go flat by itself. Then I'd rig up an amp gauge and check for discharge when I reconnected the battery. It shouldn't have more than a few milliamps with the key off, two or five milliamps are probably ok, any more and there is a fault. Some voltage regulators are connected direct to the battery and don't get disconnected when the key gets turned off, the wiring diagram will show it. If the current draw is too much disconnect the reg and see if the discharge disappears.

yeah I would agree with you on the axle fit.  not sure exactly where the issue is but I have it worked out.  As for the battery drain, That sounds like a good plan.  Since I charged it, i put it back in and ive ran the machine a few times around the yard.  No issues with a slow start.  Should prob pull it out again and test the battery voltage.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

quick follow up......

 

I've had the machine out a few times now.  no issues up to this point.  no real work with it yet, just cruising through some properties i hunt, very light trail riding.  had one scare when it wouldnt start, turned out it was a loose battery connection.  quick fix.  Front diff not leaking, no issues with front wheel bearings, everything seems to be running smoothly....so far. 

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