Filthy_Mule777

I was actually toying with the exact dang idea this past weekend. I tested the coil that was just delivered yesterday and could only get continuity across the two terminal posts but nothing from either post to the plug wires and then I removed the wire itself and tested directly to the screw/stab terminal that feeds the plug wire and got no continuity or an ohm reading. Which can only mean one of two things 1: I'm testing it wrong, 2: it's a bad coil off the shelf. Either way I'm still not getting spark which is a great Metaphor for this because I am literally stumbling around in the dark. I've been turning wrenches since I got my first bicycle and I've never been more frustrated or stumped finding and solving an issue and now it's happened it is a customer's machine. Thank God it's a long time customer and he's a patient guy!

On 4/2/2023 at 1:04 PM, Gwbarm said:

Some reason I thought you had 2 and just wondered if they had the same resistance ratings.

I had two, and actually the third arrived today, installed it and like a idiot I allowed myself to be hopeful. But instead of a spark I only got more disappointment. I've put so many parts  on this thing multiple times that I've now stopped going to the customer (that I haven't spoken with in a month) for them to purchase whatever happens to test "bad" this time and I've started buying their parts out of pocket. The horrible thing is that had I been aware of the situation as I now am, at the start of this i would have insisted that the only way I would take the job is if he used only oem parts, and the unfortunate reality is that at the point that would have been the cheaper route not to mention 3.5 months faster!

On 4/3/2023 at 1:12 PM, Params_sweden said:

Np, I'll measure all my coils as soon as I get them, hopefully they match the OEM specs. Seems like the 1994 Bayou ignition coil specs differ from many other ATVs with 12v ignition, the few specs that I found have much lower and almost identical resistance on both primary and secondary, about half of what the Bayou has.

It might give a hint to why the Bayou seems to have a lot of electrical issues, judging by the amount of threads about it, unusual specs and sensitive system overall? Just a thought.. 🤔

/Pär

I agree par which is strange to me considering the longevity of the platform, I mean they produced these things for thirty years, I understand Kawasaki having the astronomical prices that they do but you would figure with the amount of them out there at least one aftermarket company would rise to the top having gotten the specs right, seems their is a small fortune to make on klf300 electric system aftermarket parts. It's a rather criminal thing these companies are doing, you can't return electrical parts/components yet these companies/manufacturers have to know that they aren't within spec and then go so far as to advertise them as a replacement for the machine they know they won't work on, but they've already got your money with no recourse.

On 3/28/2023 at 3:41 PM, Mech said:

Well first off, when you were checking the earths and saw a small voltage, how much voltage was it ? If it was a half a volt it's too much really. You need to find the bad earth connection. With a bad earth it's possible that when you spin the engine over by hand you might see a spark at the plug, and if you spin it over with the starter and the plug out the earth might be god enough to allow cranking and a small spark, but when the plug's in, and the starter's working hard, that bad earth could be enough to prevent the coil working properly.

The air gap is preset and isn't likely to be your problem. All you need to check is that the trigger/pulse coil has the correct resistance, and that it puts out a small voltage when the engine is spinning over. It probably only puts out about one volt, and it only does it once per revolution and it's very brief. Most digital gauges won't pick that brief voltage up. It's best to use an old fashioned analogue gauge with a needle. You will see the needle jump. It won't be readable but as long as it jumps then you know the magnet or trigger plate on the rotor is attached and doing it's job. Even when the trigger coil has the right resistance, and should work fine, they won't do anything if the trigger plate has fallen off the rotor, or if there is a flake of rust or a small collection of metal dust accumulated on the trigger coil's core. A single flake of rust, if it bridges the gap between the core and the rotor is enough to short out the magnetic field and prevent the trigger from happening. You need to check the trigger coils resistance to be sure it doesn't have a break or short, and you also need to test it's putting out some small amount of voltage to be sure there's nothing mechanical, like a flake of rust, stopping it working.

 

So the pickup coil is new, I replaced it because the wires on the original had been cut through the insulation and one had several mills of copper cut through as well, so as a matter of preventive maintenance I ordered a new one and swapped it, I do still have the original and have removed the bad section on both wires and butt spliced them back and have also reinstalled it and tried at one point, I got no change so I put the new pick up coil back on & I'm pretty sure I did both resistance and high voltage tests and it passed both. I am a little confused (or would like some clarification to be sure I'm understanding correctly) a lot your description of the pick up coil function.  You said "if the trigger plate has fallen off the rotor or a spec of rust or collection of metal dust builds up these may not allow it to fire" (sorry I paraphrased) please clarify what you are calling the "trigger plate" and the "rotor", I'm assuming by rotor your talking about the large shiny circle that is connected to the crank shaft and has the raised rectangular piece of metal that passes closely to the pick up coil and signals it to fire, is that (the raised rectangle) what your referring to as the trigger plate, or are you taking about the small bracket that attaches with the pick up coil and is sandwiched between it and the mounts on the housing?  If I was able to actually see or download the repair manual that you guys offer in your library here I wouldn't be asking such basic questions, but I want to make sure our nomenclature is the same. 

Will do, I'm pretty optimistic about the help and people on this site, that have been nice enough to offer suggestions and technical info. There seems to be a wealth of knowledge here and I'm sure with their help I'll find and fix the "gremlin" in my system. But I will be sure to post both cause and solution. Good luck on yours.

On 3/28/2023 at 3:24 PM, Mech said:

Ha..  getting the quad going will make your week..

You need to check the resistance readings in the coil. You use an ohms gauge and measure between the two small wires for the primary winding, and then from the spark plug lead to one of the small wires for the secondary winding.

True, also I'll try to proof read before posting so as to not give anyone an aneurism or brain hemorrhage. 

Is it just a lighting or shadow thing or is there damage/melted plastic in the first picture right underneath the terminal tab (on the primary/positive +side)? Mech I've got my oem ignition coil on it currently but have tried with both and gotten no spark. I haven't ohmed them both yet (at least not with the factory specs in hand) but I'll do that tonight and post the results. 

11 hours ago, Mech said:

You are right Mule, those are not a cdi, they are just like an old fashioned points and coil ignition system except the points have been replaced by a transistor and the ignition timing is calculated and adjusted in the ignition unit. The coil and ignition unit both run off the battery.

I just met print and frame this, it's not often I hear that, it maybe it's not often that I actually am, either way after I get it hung up every time have someone disagree or have av difference of opinion, I'm just going to point to that comment hanging so very pompously upon my wall!! Thank you Mech, you made my week!

10 hours ago, Mech said:

Well given it\s so intermittent I'd be suspecting a wiring problem. I'd be checking for good power supply to the ignition unit and the coil, and that they both had good earths.

Since it got turned off and started again until you started to move it, I'd assume a wire just needs to move very slightly to loose power. Up around the steering head where the wires move a lot is a place they chafe through the insulation, and the other place where wires nearly always break is right at the end where they go into their metal terminal. They often break inside the insulation, and a bit of a wriggle sometimes makes they contact again, or, you feel the wire bends too easily because it's only the plastic holding it together. 

Thank you for the response and the suggestion but I have thought of that and where as that was exactly the issue the first time it died out and the neutral light wouldn't come on (it was even in the one specific place you mentioned, right underneath the handle bars where all the connections are). It would seem that I've been able to follow continuity from battery to key and all points in between! There where a couple wires that felt "floppy" near their barrel connector terminations that I cut back and butt spliced. I did run a couple of the tests you had suggested in another post and the only mentionable thing was while doing the earth tests with one lead on the negative battery terminal and the other to the engine ground when engaging the starter I picked up a very low voltage but a voltage none the less and it only appeared when the system was under load. Not sure what that means exactly but I'm certain it is significant somehow. I am also curious about another thing that I was leaning towards before the fore mentioned testing. I am wondering how in gods name do you check/adjust the pick up coil gap in this thing, I kinda feel like that is a very likely suspect considering it is the beginning of the signal and the voltage that will (on someone's somewhere) eventually be the spark that ignites the world. I've heard that 0.02 is the proper gap and that at 0.04 it will cease to make that spark at all, but the small inspection/timing port on the top of the cover isn't positioned right to be able to get a feeler gage, or anything really, in between the coil and the fly wheel. Any suggestions or thoughts on this?
 

4 hours ago, Pod said:

Same here on my 86, will follow the post as well have you guys checked out the regulator/ rectifier, I’ve seen similar issues on a snowmobile

 

From everything I've read seen about this particular ATV (it may be different with some other manufacturers) it should be able to run just fine without one at all but it'll only run off battery power until it becomes too weak to initiate a spark. But I'm no expert or even a well informed novice so I may have it wrong and I welcome anyone knowing different to please weigh in on the subject.

 I'm currently pulling my hair out over a customers 98  bayou 2x4 KLF300b. I've changed every electrical component on it twice and in a couple instances three times. Still no spark, I am baffled. Initially customer brought it to me complaining of a hard start no start situation and in fact, it wouldn't start. I changed the starter relay, spark plug,  CDI box, and starter circuit relay after which it fired right up ran very well but then started having issues with the neutral switch/light where it wouldn't come on and wouldn't allow it start or even turn over. I found in the wiring harness a loose connection, I got it taken care of and secured and that solved the problem. So now that it would crank up again and run fine I called the customer over to test it out see what he thought as I've never heard it run before and I wanted to get his opinion on how it was running. Customer ride it around a little bit pulled it back on my carport and turned the key off and said it was great, and had never ran better or started so easily, then we set up a time for him to come pick it up the following day and he left. Well where he pulled it on my carport and shut it off was in the middle of the carport so I jumped back on it to park it off to the side,  crank it up no problems put it in reverse went about maybe 18 inches and it stalled and ever since that point it has not had spark or run. I replaced the CDI box again with a better brand, I replaced the ignition coil twice put another starter relay on it and I've also changed out the stater and the pick up coil (pick up coil twice) and I'm just I'm lost I don't know what else to do to it. I've had this customers  four wheeler for four months now whereas he's a patient guy I need to get it out of here so I can move on to something else. I've seen dozens of threads across  different sites for off-road, 4 wheelers, ATVs, UTV's, whatever and they are all experiencing the same sort of issue but they never ever post hear the problem was or  the fix. So I'm hoping somebody here has a little bit of knowledge on this particular issue sent since it seems to be so widespread.  Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

4 hours ago, Params_sweden said:

I really appreciate the enthusiasm here, thanks! I did a test light run a couple of days ago, it's just wired directly to the spark plug without the cap, video attached. The test light is weakly flashing I think, but the spark itself isn't visible to the eye. I found a video of the spark on a Bayou linked below, where the spark is bright and clear when testing at the same spotas I've tried mine on.

I haven't had time to look at it this weekend, but should get out and check the things you have suggested in the next few days. I'll concentrate on the electric system for now because of the seemingly non-existent spark.

Regarding the carb, it's a China replacement mounted by the previous owner. I haven't checked the carb function at all so far! I got the original carb and it's in as good condition as the bike exterior judging by the look of it, I'll clean it up and mount it in when I get the spark sorted out.. one thing at a time  

My plan is to start with the "volt drop test", then check the coils, then the CDI. I'll let you know how it goes! @Filthy_Mule777 keep me updated if you find something

Bayou spark https://youtu.be/hzZPzaiMRdc?t=90

Thank you for starting the thread. I'll most definitely share any progress I make or anything else that maybe helpful (if I find such, not to say Mech, that your suggestions weren't helpful because they are I just don't have the means of performing them at the moment, but I appreciate any and all help/ideas/information). The second shorter video was you testing for your spark? If so I really think you should be getting fire even if it is a bit weaker than the YouTube video. Are you sure your getting gas to the cylinder?

Mech, thank you for replying. I've only tested for continuity and 12v presence, as that is the limit of the Kline tester I own. I don't have one that is able to either test for peak voltage or ohm's under load. I need to get a better tester but until I can get this thing outta the bay I'm strapped for cash, I also desperately need the repair manual for it but again finances don't allow it currently. I've been stuck in this thing for four months now, and fortunately the customer is extremely patient and understanding (he realizes he talked me into "looking" at it for him). The thing(s) that really gets me is 1. There are literally dozens of threads just like this with nearly identical issues that no one ever posts the cause and repair only that they either sold it unfixed or that they were happy to report it was fixed and they were enjoying using it again, only to never be heard from again when people inquired what the fix was. I have been able to get nearly all my component values/specs off threads like this or through the manufacturers of the replacement parts I've purchased. There was one thread (I thought on this forum) a gentleman posted about having a "hack" for the CDI, he had listed a part number for an ignition coil from auto zone to replace the CDI and it was like $25 vs the $500 that kawasaki charges, however I've had no luck in finding it again.

I'll be following this thread, I'm experiencing similar issues with a customer 98  bayou 2x4 KLF300b. I've changed every electrical component on it twice and in a couple instances the times. Still no spark, I am baffled.