Savage3

7 hours ago, Jd101506 said:

Alright. I finally got my tires and ran it around the yard a bit. This thing is just fun as all get out. Definitely need to address the carb being dirty but it went! After I got back from ruining my lawn, I pulled my multimeter and took this reading: 

 

the solenoid terminals read that off or on, running or not. 

Ok gents, I'm working so go easy on me. This is a problem as I mentioned earlier. 

Sorry, I lost focus.

Those terminals SHOULD NOT have voltage across them unless you are pushing the starter button.

Now, we still have other issues I believe. 

Looks like we will have to test the switches as well.

Can you take a picture of the small terminals on the solenoid?

Thanks 

I'm not sure if this will be of any help or not fella's

I agree with Mech. Its pointing toward switch or wiring issues. I misunderstood, I thought the starter continued to spin when the engine shut off. Sorry bud, my bad.

22 minutes ago, Jd101506 said:

 

22 minutes ago, Jd101506 said:

Alright. I finally got my tires and ran it around the yard a bit. This thing is just fun as all get out. Definitely need to address the carb being dirty but it went! After I got back from ruining my lawn, I pulled my multimeter and took this reading: 

 

the solenoid terminals read that off or on, running or not. 

There is the problem sir! Take solenoid off the vehicle, bench test.

When power is applied, you should have continuity between terminals.

When no power is supplied, you should not have continuity.

In short, either solenoid is welded or you have constant power in that circuit.

First step, bench test solenoid.

I have to go to work Boss. If this doesn't make sense, search you tube for bench testing a solenoid.

I'll check back later.

49 minutes ago, Jd101506 said:

Ok!  

Will check and report back.  So oddly, and I can't make sense of this, ever since I "lost" the ability to turn the fourwheeler off with the key, its been running really odd.  It'll startup great, and it will run for about 3-5 seconds then its like someones letting the air out of a balloon... It slowly loses RPM at idle.  I can throttle up and it throttles up evenly and instantly, no hesitation or surging... then as it comes back down to idle it will slowly die again.  No chances were made to the fuel system, pump, carb, or anything but for giggles I made myself a auxiliary tank and I mainlined fuel directly into the carb bowl... Same symptoms with the fuel tank + lines.  Its really strange.  I've tried resetting the carb idle, and the mixture screw, the mixture screw makes ZERO difference, it'll just start smoking more as it richens up... If I bump the idle speed screw up it'll stay running.  

Before I had this issue the bike would start and idle forever without complaint.  Hell it sounded better than half the fourwheelers I had.  Since that time I changed the plug to a new one (Same plug, same gap, just new), changed the oil and filter, and swapped the tires.  I also cleaned out the airbox since it was a little funky.  

I doubt, but I can't rule out they are connected but this slowing-idle-to-inevitable-death situation started the same time the fourwheeler not turning off started.  Just as another piece of information. 

I'll test for battery on the S terminal and I'll start tracing wiring tonight.  

Thanks everyone!

Yes sir,

Sometimes, the wires go through the neutral switch or other safety switches after pushing start button. 

We may have to narrow it down.

In my humble opinion, it would be a good idea to start with checking power at the solenoid.

Current should only be at the (hot) or "S" terminal on the solenoid while pushing the starter button.

Once the engine is running and you are no longer pushing start button, there should be no power on that circuit.

If there is power while engine is running, then we simply work backward through any safety switches to the starter switch.

It appears, either the contacts in the solenoid are getting stuck or one of the switches has a direct short.

On 7/14/2023 at 7:33 PM, Jd101506 said:

Hi all-

I’ve got a LT300e that I’m working on.  The last two days I noticed as I’ve been testing it, it won’t turn off with the key. The kill switch still works to turn it off, as does everything else (lights, neutral light, reverse, starter, etc). So I guess I’m taking votes on what to do here… Ignition the issue? Wiring grounding issue somewhere? 
Not sure where to start so any help would be appreciated! 

Check for battery power at S terminal on solenoid while engine is running. 

There should only be power when pushing start button.

If there is power, either switch is bad or solenoid is bad. 

Let us know results and we can move to next test.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185463997787

Not much time, cheap replacement CDI in case ya need it. 

Check either side of circuit as previously mentioned before purchasing part.

Many times it's a bad ground, not CDI itself. 

This is just in case ya need it. 

Verify that it is correct part! Description states it fits 96-99 Big Bear 350

9 hours ago, mikemc53 said:

Sorry if this post runs long but I'll try to keep it reasonable. 

I have a small Chinese unit that's about 10-12 years old - can't exactly recall the year, but the problem I have could be with any vehicle so I am posting here in the general forum. Anyway, for the first 8 or 9 years I never did anything other than standard maintenance (oil, chain, etc.) and this thing started every time and ran just fine. In those first 8 years or so, I replaced the battery once, at about 6 years. I don't use it for trail riding, just small jobs around the place so it never really gets beat but does run almost every day in the summer. I put it up every fall and take it back out in the spring and like I said, no issues. About 2-3 years ago the battery went again, after about a year, and then I went on a run of batteries in the next couple of years. They never seemed to last a season so, obviously, something is not right. Last year after another battery replacement I was still getting a no start and no lights but the battery had power. I did some very minimal testing (I have a multimeter but I am not real proficient) and I thought I had narrowed it down to the solenoid and/or the ignition switch. Being that they are inexpensive I replaced them both and it ran fine. I got back to it this spring and expected some issues but it started immediately and ran OK (some intermittent engine surging) for about a month and then the electrical issues started up again and here is where I really get confused. A week ago I drove it a bit and shut it down and about an hour later I got the no start, no click, no lights...nothing, so I figured that I killed another battery. I was getting 12.8 V at the battery posts and about 12.7 at the solenoid. I jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver and it immediately turned over. Got back in and started it with the key, drove it around and everything was fine. Two days ago, same thing, drove it for a bit, shut it off and when I tried to restart it, about an hour later...nothing. I tried the headlights and they came on so I tried to jump the solenoid again. There was one very small clink and then nothing. No lights, no start, nothing. There is still 12.7 V at the battery and 12.6 or 7 at the solenoid but it will not jump start (crossing a screwdriver at the two poles of the solenoid). I have 12.6 V at my ignition switch and the same at the utility plug, but nothing at the headlight switch - which I really can't figure out.

I am not sure where to check but I would have expected since I have juice at the solenoid I should be able to jump it (the solenoid), or at least get sparks but, nothing. Having voltage at the ignition switch and the utility plug but none at the headlight switch has really got me stumped. Any thoughts are appreciated. Also tried other batteries that work with other ATVs and Tractors but nothing works with this thing.

Sounds like you may have a few issues. I suspect the circuit with the headlight may have a short causing a parasitic draw, hence causing battery issues. The headlight circuit is also on the same circuit as the starter button going to the solenoid in some instances.

Turn on DVOM, put selector on DC voltage.

Take the black lead of multimeter and put it on negative terminal.

Place the red lead on hot wire coming from ignition switch to solenoid.

Turn key on

Pust start button

Give us the DC voltage reading.

Unhook black wire from coil.

Then try to start it, check for spark.

I'm assuming you don't have other issues. Usually, this will work when you only have one spark.

In short, it's a ground issue.

On 5/5/2023 at 9:08 AM, ath1981 said:

I have brand new coil, resistance reads: .001 between leads and .001 to ground on both. Plug wire to ground, and both leads 6.16 ohms (wire removed). I get 1.5vdc from 3 blacks wires coming from Mag when using starter. The white/blue wire to coil, I get .35vdc with ign on and .53vdc when turning over. I get .9vdc on black wire when turning over and .39vdc between the two.

What I also noticed, when turning the engine over, I get no spark, until I let off the start button, then it will spark one time.

There should be a wire that goes from coil to kill switch. Unplug that wire from coil and you should have spark. I've seen this before......I don't have time to look at diagram now, but I fixed the one spark problem before....

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, ath1981 said:

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

Ignition Coil
On the 250/300, the ignition coil is attached to the
upper frame behind the right-hand side panel. To
access the coil, the seat and right-hand side panel must
be removed (see Section 8).
On the 400 ACT/TRV, the ignition coil is on top of the
engine. To access the coil, the seat and gas tank (see
Section 4) must be removed.On the 400
FIS/TBX/500/650 H1/650 V-Twin, the ignition coil is
on the left-side frame above the engine. To access the
coil, the left-side panel (see Section 2) must be
removed.
VOLTAGE (Primary Side)
NOTE: The ignition switch must be in the ON
position; the emergency stop switch must be in
the RUN position. Also, the white/blue wire must
be disconnected from the coil.
1. Set the meter selector to the D.C. Voltage position.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the white/blue wire;
then connect the black tester lead to ground.
3. The meter must show 31V ± 20%.
4. With the tester leads connected, depress the starter
button.
5. The meter must show 130V ± 20%.
NOTE: If the voltage is not as specified in one or
both of the above tests, inspect the main wiring
harness, connectors, source/charge coil, magneto
rotor and magnets, magneto rotor key, or the CD unit

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, ath1981 said:

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

White/blue wire is primary.

Resistance on primary is .5 ohms according to wiring diagram.

Section 5.pdf

Hopefully this helps, of not we can provide input where needed sir

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, ath1981 said:

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

See notes in your service manual listed directly below where you extracted your test procedures.

Mech mentioned this in a previous post and it's important.

PEAK VOLTAGE (500/650 H1/650 
V-Twin)
NOTE: All of the peak voltage tests should be
made using the Fluke Model 73 Multimeter (p/n
0644-191) with Peak Voltage Reading Adapter (p/n
0644-307). If any other type of tester is used, read-
ings may vary due to internal circuitry.
NOTE: The battery must be at full charge for
these tests.

Sounds good Boss, thanks for the update....

On 2/13/2023 at 1:04 PM, PKR said:

Thanks for the responses. These are the readings I got this morning. COIL - Primary was 4.2 ohms, secondary was 16.96 ohms. Tested for voltage - pink wire 12.0 vdc with key on and while cranking motor, Black/Green wire 0 vdc with key on and 0.3 vdc while cranking. STATOR - pins 1-2, 1-3 & 2-3 all at 0.9 ohms, When tested to ground they all showed open circuit. CRANK POSITION SENSOR - pin to pin 184.6 ohms, tested to ground both pins showed open circuit. CDI - Black/Green open circuit, Green 0.2ohms, Blue/White open, Black/Red open, Pink 1.0 ohms. Tested for voltage only one that gave reading with key on and when cranking was the pink wire, showed 23.8 vac and 11.3 vdc with key on and also when cranking. Unplugged safety switch, made no difference, tried new plug, made no difference. Rechecked all wiring around starter and eveything looks good. Battery is new. Not sure what all these readings mean as electrical isn't my bag but hopefully they point me in the right direction.

One other thing I forgot to mention. 12.0V on the pink "power in" wire means you either...... have a lot of resistance between the battery and CDI or ...

 you have a battery with less then 50 percent charge or ......

your meter/ reading is inaccurate.

You should see around 12.6V or at least close to battery voltage.

I would take a close look at that situation. Tell us what the meter reads when connected to battery while cranking.

You should see no less then 9.6V

13 hours ago, PKR said:

Thanks for the responses. These are the readings I got this morning. COIL - Primary was 4.2 ohms, secondary was 16.96 ohms. Tested for voltage - pink wire 12.0 vdc with key on and while cranking motor, Black/Green wire 0 vdc with key on and 0.3 vdc while cranking. STATOR - pins 1-2, 1-3 & 2-3 all at 0.9 ohms, When tested to ground they all showed open circuit. CRANK POSITION SENSOR - pin to pin 184.6 ohms, tested to ground both pins showed open circuit. CDI - Black/Green open circuit, Green 0.2ohms, Blue/White open, Black/Red open, Pink 1.0 ohms. Tested for voltage only one that gave reading with key on and when cranking was the pink wire, showed 23.8 vac and 11.3 vdc with key on and also when cranking. Unplugged safety switch, made no difference, tried new plug, made no difference. Rechecked all wiring around starter and eveything looks good. Battery is new. Not sure what all these readings mean as electrical isn't my bag but hopefully they point me in the right direction.

Ok, so, in this post your only showing 12V DC on pink wire. Good news!

The pulse coil is what you referred to as crank position sensor with 186 ohms. 

Good news!

However, I'd like to know the VOLTAGE from those same wires. Resistance testing is often not accurate or all inclusive.

In addition, the crank sensor is positioned so there is an air gap, usually around .010-.014.

First check voltage, if voltage is good, gap should also be ok.

Your looking for something in the area of .02-.05, I seen them as high as .07vac on a regular cheap meter.

Also, look closely at ALL grounds. As Mech mentioned, rational thought tells us that if it ran prior to starter replacement, it should spark after replacement. Trace your steps thoroughly.

That being said, it could be coincidence that another component failed since starter replacement. Possible, but not probable.

I wouldn't purchase any parts until we have found the problem.

Some pictures of CDI and wiring would be great when you have time.

Tested for voltage only one that gave reading with key on and when cranking was the pink wire, showed 23.8 vac and 11.3 vdc with key on and also when cranking. 

I agree with Mech, coil readings seem incorrect for most Chinese atv's.

I'm also a bit confused by the DC and AC on same wire. CDI is fed AC.

Also, when you disconnected "safety switch" which wire did you disconnect? What color and where did you disconnect the wire from? What pin location in connector?

Sorry Boss, it's a bit confusing trying to diagnose no spark online...lol

The CDI will provide inaccurate readings as will the trigger on a TRMS meter because the frequency is too fast. Should use a digital volt adapter.

You should be seeing about .02-.04 volts on trigger signal when cranking. I've seen them go as high as .07.

What was the reading on the trigger coil?  Voltage while cranking? Did I miss this reading?

See if you can find specs in service manual. I have to warn you oftentimes, the specs are sketchy on Chinese models. However, we can see if it is in the ball park.

Sorry for repeated questions, having internet issues.

Did you use a digital volt adapter when measuring CDI?

Is this a a/c or d/c CDI?

How many pins are on the CDI? Appears to be 5 based on readings.

What was the reading on the trigger coils? Resistance? Then voltage while cranking?

2 hours ago, PKR said:

Thanks for the responses. These are the readings I got this morning. COIL - Primary was 4.2 ohms, secondary was 16.96 ohms. Tested for voltage - pink wire 12.0 vdc with key on and while cranking motor, Black/Green wire 0 vdc with key on and 0.3 vdc while cranking. STATOR - pins 1-2, 1-3 & 2-3 all at 0.9 ohms, When tested to ground they all showed open circuit. CRANK POSITION SENSOR - pin to pin 184.6 ohms, tested to ground both pins showed open circuit. CDI - Black/Green open circuit, Green 0.2ohms, Blue/White open, Black/Red open, Pink 1.0 ohms. Tested for voltage only one that gave reading with key on and when cranking was the pink wire, showed 23.8 vac and 11.3 vdc with key on and also when cranking. Unplugged safety switch, made no difference, tried new plug, made no difference. Rechecked all wiring around starter and eveything looks good. Battery is new. Not sure what all these readings mean as electrical isn't my bag but hopefully they point me in the right direction.

Did you use a digital volt adapter when measuring CDI?

Do you own a multimeter and digital volt adapter?

Try disconnecting kill switch first. Then check for spark.

Next,  start troubleshooting by checking pulse/trigger coil, CDI, and coil.

Let us know the results....

GW and Mech's posts are critically important. 

Example: 

The aftermarket harness could have same wire colors, but, be wired differently.

If you had spark prior to harness replacement, then the problem is most likely within the harness connections.

Ya can't cheat it or assume anything. Trace your steps backwards. Use the manual for testing each component in the ignition system.