rebeltaz

I did find the ball joint - probably that same one you found - but I couldn't find that knuckle. Once again...MANY THANKS! 

Oh, wow. I swear they do things like this just to fugg with us. Thank you so much!

...now if only I could find the parts! lol... story of my life... 

Hmm... yes and no. The a-frame and ball joint look right, but the knuckle is chunkier, like the one on the 03 360.

It says 360 on it and the VIN decodes to an 03 KVF-360-C, so... I don't know.

It's probably better if I give y'all pictures.

I've got an 03 Prairie 360 4x4 that needs a left front ball joint and knuckle assembly. On the diagram (from PartShark - https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/kaw/50a852a0f870021a9c423c20/suspension ) they show the ball joint as a part of the knuckle assembly, extending down into the lower a-arm and held on with a nut. On the four wheeler I have, the ball joint is pressed into the lower a-arm and extends upwards into the knuckle assembly and is held in place with a bolt going horizontally, clamping the ball joint in place.

Any idea on why the diagram is different and how I can find the actual parts I need?

Yeah. Most people around here know that I'm more than fair. He already knew the upper end of what I was going to charge so he was ok with a hundred less than that. I appreciate it.

I've got a 1988 LT-4WD I'm working on. I'm pretty good at giving prices (I usually screw myself, but...) but this one... This is the first time in my life that I have EVER had to pull an ENGINE just to replace a GAS TANK! I'm calling it about 8 hours, but some of that time was spent dealing with other customers, looking for tools, etc... I would LOVE to know what the rate guide actually calls for for this. 

Side not... I wish engineers would have to spend a few weeks/months working on everything that they designed. Pretty sure designs would change REAL quick!

Thanks, 

Wouldn't happen to have a service manual for a 1988 lt-f4wd would you? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks.

I downloaded the 2013-15 Ranger 800 4X4 Crew 6X6 service manual from the download section, but the wiring diagrams just say "click link for diagrams" and ... there's no link to click! Does anybody have the wiring diagram for a 2103 Polaris Ranger 800 EFI? I've got a weird battery drain I need to diagnose.

There is no current draw until I just turn the switch on. Then, after you turn the switch off, the current draw is still about an amp and it stays that way until I either pull and replace the ECM relay or disconnect and reconnect the battery cable. Then the current draw stays at 0 until I switch the key on and back off again...

I need that diagram to see what's pulling the current. Thanks!

On 2/13/2022 at 4:47 PM, Mech said:

I'm about out of ideas for you. Compression, fuel and properly timed spark.

So no backfiring, no smell of burnt fuel, dry plug.. all I can think of is that it's not drawing fuel in..  Blocked exhaust..  You'd think it would be in the muffler, but perhaps the header's double walled and it's collapsed the inner or something highly unusual.

Disconnected the exhaust at the head. I don't know... It has to be something intermittent, but I can't find it. If the customer winds up not picking this up, I WILL find it, though. And I will be sure to report back here. I appreciate EVERYONE'S help.!

On 2/13/2022 at 4:55 PM, Mech said:

I wonder if there's something in the bottom of the plug hole preventing the mix getting to the plug... mud maybe, cobweb of soot.... Never seen it but...

It's strange that fuel down the plug hole didn't even get it to kick. No air or no  ignition of the mix.

I even took a camera and snaked it down the plug hole. All good...

1 minute ago, Mech said:

Bummer. I hate that.. when you don't get to the bottom of it and the customer calls time.. I hate it so much I mostly try to convince them to leave it with me and I'll try in my own time..

Bad wiring I reckon, you moved some wire somewhere and it ran then vibrated out of place again....

 

Go on... have another look..

 

You know you want to....

lol... you're right. I do want to. 

I tend to not charge customers if I can't fix something - no matter how much time I've got in it - unless it's for parts that I can't take back out or when I do repair what it was brought in for only to find deeper issues later. As it is, they owe me about $400 for this ... thing...  I will be surprised if they actually come get it. If I do get stuck with, you can bet that I will be getting to the bottom of this and I will definitely report back if that happens!

20 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

There is the issue sir, I generally see about about a half volt AC or less when testing a trigger coil. If the CDI doesn't receive the proper signal at the proper time, it will generally cause ignition issues.

You're right... That was another POS I was working on. This one, the pickup coil resistance reads about 212, within range of the 189~ 231 Ω at 20 ̊C (68 ̊F) quoted in the manual.

These things are all starting to run together!

6 hours ago, Savage3 said:

Check that trigger coil Boss.....very important! Even if it's brand new.....

I did. According to the meter/peak-adapter, it's putting out the 5+v as per the service manual.

This think fired off out of the blue the other day and ran like a champ for about 10 minutes. without me doing ANYTHING! The shop was getting smoked out and it was quitting time anyway, so I shut it down with the idea I'd roll it outside and start it back up when I came back. Yeah... that was the one and ONLY time it started. The customer has decided to not go any further so I guess this is one mystery that will not be solved

I appreciate all of the help and advice, though.

47 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

How did you make out with CDI, coil, and trigger tests?

Believe it or not, sidetracked on two more timing issues this past week! I got those straightened out, though, so I'll get back to this one this week. It's never ending around here... 

2 hours ago, jcyoungkeit said:

what compression in psi are you getting. could be not quite enough. engines need proper compression, fuel, spark, and timing.

over 150psi... according to the specs, that's correct.

13 minutes ago, Mech said:

Ha.. I'm a mech too Rebel and I know what it can be like.. and as has been said, and you know, it's sometimes the simplest thing. You certainly thorough, and methodical.. 

Check if there's a starter feed into the cdi unit.. 

12 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

Do you have a spare CDI that ya can try?

Maybe it's not releasing at the proper time?

Can you test the input and output at cdi?

Can you test the trigger coil as well?

I can, and I will check those tomorrow. 

6 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

Let's start at the beginning.  The original post states the machine is getting fuel, (by starting fluid at a minimum) spark, and compression. 

Operationally, the engine should start based on the facts provided. However,  the machine needs spark at the proper time.

Now, unless the owner missed something during his diagnosis, failed to provide information, or misdiagnosed something.

The only alternative is spark at the incorrect time or spark not happening under compression. 

I'm going to check again - this will make four times - but unless I am completely off my rocker, timing looks right. I agree with you in your diagnosis, but unless someone has been in this before me without telling me (a high probability in my area) timing is right.

Misdiagnosed something is not outside the realm of possibility. I do do this for a living, but I am human like everyone and do make mistakes. That's why I am open to any and all suggestions and perfectly willing to check and recheck things I know I've already checked. 

As for failed to provide information.... lol... I am always afraid that I provide too much information and that people just skim over it. If there is anything I have left out, I would be more than happy to offer anything I might have missed. 

47 minutes ago, Mech said:

So no backfiring, no smell of burnt fuel, dry plug.. all I can think of is that it's not drawing fuel in..  Blocked exhaust..  You'd think it would be in the muffler, but perhaps the header's double walled and it's collapsed the inner or something highly unusual.

Nope. Only once in a blue moon will it even act like it wants to fire off. I loosened the exhaust manifold to make sure it wasn't a clogged muffler, but it didn't change anything. Maybe I didn't loosen it fr enough? I don't know, but I would have thought just breaking the seal would have been enough if that were the cause. I'll quadruple check that again tomorrow...

39 minutes ago, Mech said:

I wonder if there's something in the bottom of the plug hole preventing the mix getting to the plug... mud maybe, cobweb of soot.... Never seen it but...

It's strange that fuel down the plug hole didn't even get it to kick. No air or no  ignition of the mix.

I ran a camera down the spark plug hole to take a look at the cylinder walls, so nothing blocking that. 

4 minutes ago, Cookie said:

This might sound silly but more than once, I’ve installed the plunger down into a carb and it gets hung up. Since you can’t see it, it could be effectively “wide open” throttle trying to start. The mixture would be way off and it could explain the dry spark plug and no light off even with gas/ starting fluid. Look into the carb, make sure it’s not wide open/ full throttle. FWIW, my other machine a Timberwolf 250 won’t start without choke. Is the choke ON? Hope that helps.

Yep. Done that before myself, but no. It's good here. And nope. Not on choke, either. Trust me... at this point NOTHING sounds silly!

Just now, Cj Winds said:

Do you have the intake system installed with the air filter installed?

 

I have tried it with the air box installed and removed. Typically, though, an engine will at least start without the air filter. Depending on the tuning, it might not run right or open up right without the air filter restriction, but I've never come across one that wouldn't at least start. But yeah... I have tried that as well. 

I just want to go on record as thanking each and every one of you. Believe me, I do not like to ask for help - I like to figure things out myself - but when I do have to ask... you can bet it's a doozy!

1 hour ago, Mech said:

Hmmm.. You sound thorough and competent, I'm assuming that you are checking things carefully.

For the spark to be 360 degrees out I agree that it would have to have the cam retimed, and even then it may or not cause a 360 degree off situation. Some cdi systems that run off the crank, that is get their low voltage off the stator, need more than one rotation before they will fire. They have to see several low voltage pulses before the trigger coil will fire them. If the cam timing hasn't been changed though that will not have happened. If it was firing 360 degrees off it should fire out the inlet too.

The dry plug either means it's getting no fuel, or it is but it's getting burnt off but not firing up because of bad timing.

You could pour about a teaspoonful of fuel down the plug hole and try starting it. I don't trust starting fluid. it can flood plugs.

The timing could be off if the voltages coming out of the stator were getting shorted together. I've seen that. Check the wiring pug going into the engine isn't full of mud or wet.

Remove the plug cap in case it's shorting. Your putting the two plugs in series was a good test for strong spark, and it will have tested the coil's not shorting, but it won't have tested the plug cap. I  should point out though that they probably wouldn't recommend that as a test in case it causes a short in the coil.

Check the sparkplug cap, put fuel into the cylinder. If it fires then you need to figure out why it's not getting fuel. Carby, airleak, blocked exhaust.  

re: plug wiring... yep, it was muddy... had to clean all of that (and the kill switch) to get spark in the first place.

re: plugs in series... isn't that basically what a spark tester does, though?

re: fuel in the cylinder... Yep... done that too (fuel in the cylinder). Still no fire. 

55 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

Check the woodruff key on the crankshaft, ensure it has not sheered.

When I replaced the starter clutch, it wasn't and, unless I somehow fugged that up putting it back together - which I don't think would even be possible - it should still be good. Besides, like I said, I have made sure that when the tdc timing mark is lined up, the piston is, in fact, at top dead center.

50 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

Well, if the spark plug is completely dry, that means fuel is not making it to cylinder. However, it should start with fluid injected directly into cylinder. (Go back and revisit fuel problem as well.)

So, if spark is good, timing is off. Ya don't necessarily need a timing light, remove valve cover, put cylinder at top dead center and see if timing marks line up. You should be able to see marks on flywheel.

Up top, inside valve cover, they usually have a mark on timing gear as well.

Remember, TDC must be on compression stroke! It can be 180 degrees out as the other member mentioned. Very important!

re: spark plug dry... yeah, that's what I would think, too. But, even if the fuel is completely missing - either carburetor issue or even no gas tank at all! - I should (and always do) be able to get the engine to fire off until the starter fluid burns off. 

re: timing... Like I said... I've literally triple checked timing. All of the marks line up and the piston is in fact at tdc when the flywheel marks line up. 

I asked earlier, but how do I know if it's 180 degrees out? And if it were, how could that even be possible without someone accidentally on purpose doing that? I mean... I get jumping time by a tooth or two, but with all of the pins, guides and keys intact, who on earth could the timing jump by 180 degrees? 

3 hours ago, Cj Winds said:

Is the spark plug wet or dry after repeated attempts of starting the engine? If the plug is wet, the engine could be getting too much fuel. Try draining the carb and disconnecting the fuel line to the carb. Then try starting it and while starting it try spraying different amounts of starting fluid into intake.

Spark plug is completely dry.

58 minutes ago, Savage3 said:

This assumes all other information provided is correct.

Is there enough spark to fire under compression? Etc...

I have checked three times. I agree that that is what it sounds like, but if it is, I can't see it. As for the spark, it looks like a good strong spark to me and I have even left one spark plug in the cylinder; put another spark plug in the spark plug boot; and touched the electrode of that plug to the anode of the other spark plug. I an still getting a strong spark. So, for that to happen, it has to be sparking in the cylinder under pressure. 

I do have timing light. I'll check both of those Monday. Fingers crossed!

7 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Have you checked it is sparking top dead center on compression stroke rather on exhaust ( timing 180 degrees out). It is an easy mistake to  miss even among the most experienced techs .

 

This is a dumb question, but how do I check that it's not 180 out and how would it have even gotten that way without it having been put back together wrong?

1 hour ago, Mech said:

The dunking in water might have caused a crack or track down the sparkplug cap.. It might look like it's sparking good when the plugs out, but be shorting when there's compression on the plug. If it's possible take the cap off the end of the lead. Even taking the waterproofing rubber boot off might make a difference or allow you to hear the spark jumping down the porcelain.

It could have done the same thing to the ignition coil. Once there's compression on the plug the spark has a harder time jumping, and can short somewhere else.

I will take a look at that when I come back Monday, but I want to think they looked ok...

14 hours ago, Mech said:

Checked fuel's getting into the carb ? Loosen the drain bung and see if fuel comes out, after it's empty crank it over and check that more comes out. Tests the flow and pump.

Take the spark plug lead's fittings off(if you can) in case they are shorting.. Use a tiny split pin jambed up the wire to the plug.

Loosen the exhaust at the head perhaps. Blocked exhaust stops the suck too.

It's got a new plug huh ?

And fresh fuel ?

Hi! Yeah... I did make sure that gas is getting to the carburetor. But aside from that, I"ve tried starter fluid straight into the intake.

I did also loosen the exhaust in case it was clogged. It's got suction - I can feel it with my hand over the intake and it'll pull a paper towel in on each intake stroke.

Three new plugs, just in case one was defective.

....