JustRandy

1 hour ago, 97kingquad said:

No I haven't messed with the valves yet, I am pretty good at figuring stuff out but engines have always been hard for me because I can't see the actually process happening. 

Setting the valves is the first step because how the carb is set depends on how the valves are set.

1 hour ago, 97kingquad said:

I just recently got into figuring it all out with a small motor and now I'm trying with the quad. 

If any of you have some experience checking/setting valves can you give me a briefing? I intend on doing everything I possibly can myself before I take it to someone else. 

You don't learn what you don't try eh. 

It's pretty easy.  You have to get the piston to the top of the cylinder and the hardest part is being sure it's on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.  There is a timing mark on the left side of the engine under a plug but I always use a screwdriver in the spark plug hole to feel when the piston is at the top. 

First remove the spark plug and the intake valve inspection cap.  I think it's a 17mm wrench.  Then slowly pull the pull starter cord until you see the rocker arm move.  The rocker arm moving means it's the intake stroke and the piston is moving down.  The next stroke is the compression stroke so keep pulling the cord until the piston is at the top.  You can feel it with a screwdriver through the spark plug hole or you can use the timing mark on the left side on the engine.  It doesn't have to be perfectly at the top, but close is fine.

Then wiggle the rocker arm and see if there is any gap.  If it's tight and no gap can be felt, then that is your problem.

If so, then grab a small socket (5/16 I think) and loosen the nut on the screw on the rocker arm.  Use a small flat screwdriver to back the screw out some and tighten the nut.  It doesn't need to be any set value because we're just diagnosing the problem now.  Just make it so there is a gap and be sure the nut is tight or else it will come off and fall in the engine.

Then put your carb back to stock and it should run great.  Until the valve continues to wear.

1 hour ago, 97kingquad said:

I'm pretty sure I have to replace my stator as well but can't find any videos on a sazuki king quad 300 stator replacement (although many people say they've had to)

I'd be surprised if your stator is bad.  It doesn't seem likely.

1 hour ago, 97kingquad said:

I'm trying to check as many of the things I come across as I can, I have a lt-f4wd and three parts bikes for it as well as my king quad and almost a full parts bike for it. And I know many parts are interchangeable but any part that is not working if I don't have it I will buy. I'd like to make this quad a fairly reliable fun trail bike if I can. Because the thing was awesome when I got it running the first time. I fell in love I think

Good you have parts bikes because you may need to swap heads.

On 7/20/2023 at 10:24 AM, 97kingquad said:

I bought it for 800 bucks and got it running that night and it ran great for a few days 

But I parked it the other night and went to start it again and it was really hard to fire up and when I did it was bogging and idling high then low again.

Ran great for a few days then was hard to start when cold is perfectly consistent with worn intake valve.

Hard starting when hot is electrical.  Hard starting when cold is intake valve.

Do you know how to check the intake valve lash?

2 hours ago, 97kingquad said:

Ok so I tired switching the headlights on but it makes no difference from what I can tell. 

 

I have removed the carb at least 20 times now adjusting the needle and set screw but none of it has had any impact on my issue. The only thing that has made the bike run better and hit any higher rpm is actually removing the cover from the air intake. It runs almost well. 

I know it is not supposed to be like that but I really can't figure it out. There's no debris in the intake and the carb is pretty clean. The Jets and vacuum lines all seem clear. 

Why does it need more air? Even when I max out the set screw it starves for more

It's odd that it ran better with a dead battery but maybe that was a coincidence.  Is there any way you can try another dead battery and see if it runs better again?

Assuming it's not electrical then the first thing to do is set the valve lash before tinkering with the carb.  Another common issue with these suzuki engines is worn intake valves.  Verify the intake valve lash is close to 0.001 - 0.003.  If there is no lash then that would be your problem.

Worn intake valves usually present as hard starting, so it's possible someone may have tried to compensate by richening the carb.  Unfortunately the valve will keep wearing until it won't run at all.

1 hour ago, Mech said:

Yeah well we'll let people decide that for themselves.

You "logic", if that's what you call it, goes something like this..

R  I skidded on a slippery road and had a crash once.

M  Perhaps you dozed off, or were going too fast, or your tyres needed attention.

R  No, only slippery roads cause crashes. Nothing else but slipper roads cause crashes, and here's a whole heap of newspaper clippings to prove it.

M But Randy, I could find you a whole lot of newspaper clippings showing that speed causes crashes too. People should slow down and make sure they aren't tired and check their tyres. Every police department says to slow down and check your tyres. It's well known that speed can cause crashes.

R No, that's bad advice.. People shouldn't slow down or check their tyres. That's bad advice Mech.

 

Yes sir.. 

Like you say Randy, the internet is a big place and we can't hide from our posts..  I know when you got into quads, I know when you first had a regulation problem, I seen you asking for help to diagnose it.. 

But, like you also say, you just come in here to argue..  And like I keep saying, I come in here to help people, and you Randy, can't be helped..

You carry on, someone might feel like a stupid and pointless argument, but I have trouble lowering myself to your level of stupid.. I can't oblige you.

Looks like you forgot to take your meds, Narcissus.

You totally ignore the guy wanting help while you pout and cry.

4 hours ago, 97kingquad said:

Okay so I went through and tested the regulator rectifier/ stator and it seems I'm not getting almost any voltage. 

Would that cause all this fuss? 

It ran great for a few days and now it will only idle if I rec it up it Boggs and dies if I don't flutter the throttle. 

My battery was dead before when it ran well also and it doesn't change when using a booster pack.

Maybe it just doesn't get enough volts at higher rpm?

If it ran great with a dead battery that is evidence that the regulator is faulty.  It's a known issue on these quads.

The higher the rpms, the higher the voltage will be unless the regulator regulates it properly.  Once the voltage gets to 18v the cdi will not function.  Having a dead battery will act as a regulator and lower the voltage so the engine will run better.  That's why Mech said to try turning the lights on to see if it runs better.  I taught him that a year ago and he can't stand it.

Oh are we allowed to call people names now?

It doesn't matter because slander is the tool of the loser.

1 hour ago, Mech said:

why do I have twenty-one under my name

It's your narcissism score.

21 poor souls got terrible advice.  It's a shame I could only save one.

If that were true then you'd have 22 solutions and I wouldn't have any.

You may fabricate the past in your head but you can't do it here.

When I first got my king I backed over a small tree which wedged itself in the a-arm and tore the u-joint boot.  I had to get my truck to winch the quad off the stump.  Then I welded stainless plate to the entire bottom and all the a-arms.  Now the quad is tough.  But before.... not so much.  A small tree required a 4000lb vehicle to free it.

Just the other day I had a mess of vines wrapped around the rear axle and if I hadn't had the armor it would have ripped the boot to shreds.

With the 250ex I don't have to worry because there are no boots to rip.  And it will go more places, climb steeper hills, fit between more trees, bunny hop logs, and if I do get stuck I can pick it up.  With the king I can't just go and not worry about a stick ramming into a boot or vines wrapping around or who knows what.

I don't know what people consider to be tough but for me it's not having to worry about breaking anything while riding around the house.

This just popped in my email.

Seems like every week the king quad is on that list.

On 7/20/2023 at 6:03 PM, Mech said:

Turn the headlight on and see if it makes a difference..

Wonder where you learned that lol

I guess the world can be changed a little bit.

Yep there's lots of parts that wear out but the fuel pump will never wear out on the 250EX because there isn't one

It also doesn't have an oil filter so not much to take care of.  I've never fixed anything major on it in 18 years, until now.  Never changed brakes, bearings, filters,,,, nothing but tires, battery, oil and starter brushes.  I think the spark plug is even still original.  And I beat the snot out of it all the time because it's only 229cc and I'm always looking for a 6th gear lol.

The only reliability drawback is there is no backup starting system so if the battery dies it will have to be push started.  That takes a workaround because from the factory it will only start in neutral which makes push starting impossible.  I was stranded on top of a mountain because of that.

At least the King does have a pull cord.

Love my king, but I've had to work on it a lot over the years.  The one-way clutch is worn on it right now.  When I let off the gas I coast instead of slowing down.  Kinda neat actually.

And seems like there are a lot of people on here asking for help with their kings and the 250 version.  Seems like the email I get on sundays always has at least one in the latest topics.  There's a lot too go wrong and much of it is made out of rubberish plastic like vacuum hoses, diaphragms, u-joint boots, cable sheaths.  And the engine design is ancient.  You could swap the cam, head and piston for that of the 1989 250S quadsport which is little different than a 1985 230 quadsport which isn't much different than the original 185.

Had a king quad for 12 years and love it, but definitely not a reliable quad. 

Any quad with a fuel pump can't be THE most reliable quad because gravity will work longer than any pump.  In addition to a pump it also has a vacuum actuated petcock that most people disable and work around because it fails.  Also the diaphragm in the cv carb is another point of failure.  The regulator is a known issue with those quads, intake valves wear out commonly, and even the bore to stroke ratio isn't that great for reliability.  All the gears are shifted by cable and cables fail.  The drive axle has u-joints which fail faster than solid axles.

It's a fun quad and will do lots of work on a homestead, but I wouldn't trust it with my life in the wilderness.

Btw, the Honda 250EX after 18 years of flawless reliability finally let me down.  I parked it one night and no spark the next day.   Probably the pickup coil in the stator.

Not so many hills here so I can get right next to the tree and saw it into logs then load them into a trailer.  Then I stack the logs until summer when I split and stack them up.  They're easier to split after they dry a little.  Then by November they're ready to burn.  The hardest part of the whole deal is getting the tree on the ground without destroying other trees.  That's where the winch usually comes in.  I'm trying to cut down the sweetgums without destroying oaks, poplars, maples, fruit trees, or anything else.  Sweetgum is the most worthless wood.  Good for nothing except firewood so I'm trying to be rid of it a little more each year.

When I cut a tree it doesn't fall to the ground but instead leans on another tree because the trees are so densely packed.  Sometimes the tree doesn't come off the stump so I'm prying with long prybars or pulling with winches.  When I finally get it off the stump I cut about 4 ft from the bottom until it rocks over and stabs itself into the ground while ejecting the log.  I repeat until it falls over onto another tree on the opposite side.  I keep going like that until nothing is left but a stack of logs.  The New Zealand Nannies would have a cow if they saw what I do LOL!  I also ride without helmets and I roofed houses for a decade.  Sometimes life isn't about safety.  And I'm glad in this country I'm allowed to take all the risks I want.  Even if I weren't allowed I'd do it anyway.... it just adds that much more risk to it

2 minutes ago, Jim Denton said:

Ginseng, Morrell mushrooms, ramps. Goodness everywhere

 

I ordered some from ebay from someone in WV and planted it around 2015.  Should be making some nice roots by now.

6 minutes ago, Jim Denton said:

What I cut has to be pulled off the mountain. So yeah a winch and a snatchblock.

You use synthetic line for that?

Oh I been meaning to ask if you had any ginseng up in those hills.  I used to watch Appalachian Outlaws.  Too bad they only made 2 seasons of it, 

I have wedges.

Glad I don't live in New Zealand.

5 hours ago, Kibblesnbits said:

How do you normally use a winch for logging?

I use it to pull down trees then winch the cable from under the debris.  I could see a cable made from fabric getting snagged like that.  Also if a tree sits down on my chainsaw bar I use the winch to tug on the tree.  I'm also worried about the stretch of synthetic.  The steel has no stretch which makes it easy to make small adjustments to the force I'm applying.  I also use a lot of snatch blocks.

I have a way of keeping it reeled up nice so it doesn't have too many hand pokes, but I'm used to it if it happens.  My biggest gripe is my hands get dirty because I keep the cable oiled.

Would you use synthetic again or go back to steel?  I'm rough on cable.  It's not just for getting me unstuck but pulling trees down and anything else that needs pulled.

45 minutes ago, Jim Denton said:

That was my first atv.

Bayou was my first also.  I did a lot with it.  A lot more than I should have lol

Yours looks a heck of a lot better than mine did.  My was green.  I should probably post some pics.  Been meaning to just been busy lately.

Hey how does that synthetic winch line work in logging?  Does it get snagged on branches or anything?  We were just talking about which winch line to use a couple months ago on here.

Adjust the gaps according to the amount of heat you expect.  My quad pushes a plow in summer so although it's not nitrous or blown it generates a lot of heat without any air movement.  Plus I have a high compression piston.

Once the rings expand due to heat and the gaps close then it has no where to go except to expand into the cylinder wall.  Once that happens the rings won't seal and it will burn oil.

So then you have to hone it to roughen the walls and that roughness is used to cut the new rings so that they seal well.  That's why a lot of guys say to ride it like you stole it when you first put it back together in order to seat the rings.  Of course that is an issue with a lot of debate and no clear right answer.

There used to be an optional cooling fan you could buy for the King:

24 minutes ago, Kibblesnbits said:

So wait, are you saying you cut your rings? Do they not come the right size? The ones I get come with the piston

The directions that come with the piston specify the ring gap to make according to the type of engine mods you have.  I just take it a step further to be absolutely sure the gaps never close.  Big gaps won't bother anything with an engine with such a long stroke.

Here's Wiseco:

1 hour ago, Jim Denton said:

They spent years rolling down a 1000' vertical drop mountainside. The youngsters working them thought it was funny. 

A buddy was riding my bayou and couldn't make a turn so he jumped off and grabbed a tree and sent the atv flying off the side of a mountain.  When they didn't show up at the nest split I went back looking for them and seen him standing there with a bloody nose and no atv.  I'm like "what happened to the quad?"  He pointed down the mountain and was pissed I cared more about the quad than him lol.  Well I could see he was ok but I couldn't see the quad at all!

5 hours ago, Kibblesnbits said:

im pretty shure mine went off a cliff and down a raven, everything is bent, whole main frame has a slight twist

Some strong chain and a bottle jack will straighten a frame.

5 hours ago, Kibblesnbits said:

almost as much zipties and gorilla tape as there is plastic and it smokes

I think we all have cracked plastics.  Join the club lol

Mine smoked so much it burned 4 qts of oil then screwed my cam and head a few years back.  I honed the cylinder and put in new rings.  Good as new now.  But make sure you put WIDE ring gaps.  What happens is the engine gets too hot and the rings butt together, so now I make the gaps huge.  I also installed a 6 inch fan from ebay.

58 minutes ago, Kibblesnbits said:

battery location is almost as bad as yamahas or polaris is my only complaint with these machines.

All the weight is in the back so I guess they decided to put the battery in front.  I upgraded to a lawnmower battery and wedged in 2 bigass chunks of lead behind the front bumper.  Think they weigh about 50 lbs.  Helps to balance it out a bit.

Friend of mine had a raptor with holeshots on the back.  The traction was so crazy I couldn't keep the front wheels on the ground, so I stuffed those lead weights in the front bumper so I could steer the thing lol

1 hour ago, Kibblesnbits said:

anti-seize everything

Yup, but hate getting that on my hands.  Seems like once it gets on my hands it gets on all my clothes and everything.

Works good for electrical connections too since it has aluminum in it.

43 minutes ago, Gwbarm said:

I use copper, no particular reason that is just what I got, is silver better.

I've heard copper works too.  I have some in a spray but only ever used it for copper head gaskets.

I'm jealous he has 4 too.  I'd like to have one setup for the trails and one setup for work.

You could make a lot of trailers with all those quads.  I had a 2 car train going for a while.  A little hard to backup though.

I made a jig to hook to a trailer ball and pull another atv by the a-arms.  That hooks to the camping trailer so I can take a sport quad camping with me.  It's a bit like a train.

This happened to arrive in my email:

How to Install Valves in your 4-Stroke

Since almost all modern valves feature some form of a thin coating or hardening process on their exterior faces, lapping valves using a lapping compound should never be considered due to the risk of wearing away the coated or hardened layer.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/articles/how-to-install-valves-in-your-4-stroke-r1069

Go tell them they are wrong.  I'd love to see that.

Pretty impressive you got it down to the frame like that.  I remember having trouble getting the gas tank out.  I think I had to cut it out.  The rest of the quad I turned into a grader.  Put a trailer hitch and blade under it.  Works good for smoothing out trails.