Timberwolf Starter always running

[stymy68]

I have an unknown year Timberwolf. I have had to replace/repair some back yard wiring issues. With the wiring fixed, I compared to my other Timberwolf quads, I have found a problem. Starter is always running. I can only get it to stop by removing the positive lead from the battery.

[Frank Angerano]

That red wire coming from the battery goes to a relay and from the relay to the starter? 

That relay should have another small set of wires coming onto it. Unplug that and see if the starter does the same thing when connected to the battery.  If yes then the relay is bad and stuck in the closed position. 

If not then the three wires must be traced back using the wiring diagram to where they originate from.  Either there is voltage being applied to a wire that shouldn’t. And that’s the wire that should come from the start button. One wire gets voltage when you are cranking. (Hitting the start button) 

[stymy68]

Relay was replaced with new. I did not try disconnecting the small set of wires, only because of new relay. It also wont stop if I disconnect the Neutral Relay. Ignition key doesn't do anything, only the kill switch works properly. I will try to trace back the wire from relay to starter.

DO the small wires from relay go to start button?

[stymy68]

I don't have the service manual for a 92-98 Timberwolf. I will look in forum for the posted manual.

[Frank Angerano]

Yes one of them will tie into that starter relay. If you have to cut one at a time and re splice it.  One of them will knock the starter out.  Look at the wires coming from the start button. Also look at the plug coming from the start button at the handle bars.  See what color it is.  The manual should be in the down load section. If you have trouble finding it or need help figuring it out let me know.   

[stymy68]

I guess I will have to take off the front plastics. was trying to avoid this, lots of frozen screw and bolts. I was thinking maybe a stuck start button.

[Frank Angerano]

It very well could be. But I would spray the bolts ahead of time in case you do have to take apart.  My guess is it’s a 12v wire that’s tied into the starting circuit wire.   If you go through the harness it’s going to stand out.  Something that will looked taped in or some funky wire connector that looks out of place 

I would take that plug off the solonid and test each wire for voltage. See who has what and the one that’s live with 12v I would start following that first along the harness.  

[stymy68]

Copy That

 

it there a starter cutoff relay in the cuircuit? i read that in another thread.

or is that the relay between starter and battery?

 

Also, glad to see someone is still out there and responding.

[Frank Angerano]

There are two relays, one is the starter relay and one may be a safety relay like a neutral safety switch that locked out a relay for safety reasons. I am going to stick with my first gut feeling of the starter wire being tapped by another 12v feed someplace.  

[David Peterson]

Would suggest disconnecting the small plug going to the starter relay. If the starter stops spinning then something is applying 12vdc to the starter relay. A stuck or burnt contact in the starter switch can do this.  disconnect the starter cable and use a test light or meter in place of the starter.  Find and disconnect the cable coming from the starter button. If power goes away you've narrowed things down. from the connector to switch, or from connector to starter relay. 

Usually that starter relay plug has 12vdc coming from the battery side going to that connector then up to the key switch for power. Two of the other wires will be 12vdc to activate the relay and the other for ground. 

[stymy68]

So I have made so progress. Turns out new Starter relay, from Caltric, was part of the problem (not happy with them, always seem to have problems with their products). I found some ground wires that weren't connected (both located on shifter side), and re-installed original starter relay.

Now Start button works, Kill switch still works, Ignition key needed to start (but wont stop with key in off). Checked Ignition switch, OK.  I win for me, even if not perfect.

Rev Indicator allows on, Headlights work, but only High-beam selection. Didn't have any of these previously, again a win for me although not perfect.

Neutral Indicator not working.

 

Where does Reverse Indicator get its signal?

Where does Neutral Indicator get its signal?

BTW I found out that it is a 1993 Timberwolf. Please add to subject line.

[David Peterson]

Usually by a switch ( closing / making contact) sending a ground back to cdi unit.  There is usually 12vdc going through a light (neutral or reverse) then to the switch wire. Spliced off that wire goes back to the cdi unit. Switch gets turned on grounding the wire, turns the light on and grounds the cdi unit to let it know its in rev or neutral.

Have you opened up (cut the plastic covering) off the wire harness on this 4wheeler and checked it ?  Reason for asking is I have an 03 kodiak that had wiring problems. Used hand break a sparks flew. Found burnt ground wire near battery negative cable buried in the harness. Cut the plastic covering off the harness, found a place where the harness had come in contact with the exhaust and melted. Someone just tie wrapped the wiring back up is all they did. The ground wire was found melted in a bunch of different places inside the harness from one end to the other end. Ground wire going to the ign coil was also melted to the coil power wire. No fuses were found to have blown. Why I have no idea, this 4 wheeler should have burned to the ground with all the melted shorted wires. Had to repair wire due to some parts of the harness not avail any more, so might as well fix it. Think a battery got hooked up backwards or tried to jump start it with cables hooked up wrong. will never know what happened.

[David Peterson]

Brown red wire from ign switch 12vdc. brown red wire to indicator lights.  From indicator lights, Rev G/L wire (green/blue) to rev switch to ground. Neutral  sb (sky blue wire) to neutral switch to ground.

[stymy68]

Thanks David.

I'm still working on it. is been brutally cold this week.

[stymy68]

Still having issues with the Neutral light not coming ON, and Reverse light always ON. Everything else seems to work. Appears to be with 12v side, as I have traced the SkyBlue back to ground and Green back to ground. Started to go through entire harness. I thought it was strange to find,  multiple splices in the harness, that appear to be factory. All splices so far, are the same. Nice, thin, brass loop.

Is this normally found in the factory wire harness?

[Frank Angerano]

Yes that’s normal on the harness for splices to come in like that. 

 You have that diagram for your bike take a look at the #19 neutral safety switch   If you can disconnect that wire going into the neutral switch also disconnect the reverse switch as well #20 and try to jump the neutral safety switch wire on the harness side to a ground and with the key on see if the neutral light comes on. Just curious to see how that works. 

 

[David Peterson]

Frank is correct about the wiring being tied together with brass rings.  Disconnecting the reverse switch connector should also turn off the reverse light.  If you have 12 volts dc on the reverse light you should also have it at and through the neutral light as well ( provided the bulb is good).  If you disconnect the reverse connector and the light goes out that's good. Grounding the skyblue wire should turn on the neutral light provided the bulb is good.

[stymy68]

So I figured out the neutral light. It was the connection for the bulb. I always had 12v and ground was good. Neutral light is now working properly, but not reverse light. Still always ON.

Having the wiring diagram doesn't help if I don't know where  I should have 12volts and where not

Termination of reverse circuit should be at bottom of the differential but that connection is damaged so I grounded to bolt for differential casing. I think that is my problem with reverse light always being ON. 

Where else can I terminate?

[Frank Angerano]

The reverse light will only come on when you put it in reverse where the shifter makes ground contact through a switch obviously. So the 12v  positive wire (br) on the diagram going to the light #20 should always have 12v when the key is on.   The ground wire coming from the reverse switch may have a problem or the wire coming from it going to the bulb. Disconnect that wire #21 that provides the ground and see if the light goes off. If not then that wire is grounded someplace from the bulb socket to the reverse switch.  If it does go off then the reverse switch is not working properly. Take a tester and see if you have continuity from that wire on the switch to a good ground when the bike is NOT in reverse. If so the switch is broken and constantly grounded.  

[stymy68]

Where is the reverse switch located?

I have tested everything you suggested and that would leave the switch

[Frank Angerano]

I’m not sure on your bike. But all you would have to do is follow the wire from the bulb back to the switch.  The G/L wire on the diagram.  It will lead you right to the switch.  In the mean time I will look at your bike and see if I can’t locate it in the manual.  

[David Peterson]

Lower left hand side towards the bottom of the motor. Look for the g/l and black wire.  The netural switch is also near there too.

[David Peterson]

If your switch's, reverse and neutral are like most. the body of the switch is ground. meaning you will only have one wire going to the switch,  So you may have a single wire or two wires.  But the color of the wire is mainly what you want to look for.  Would also suggest you use you ohm meter to check the switch body to any grounding point on the motor case for zero ohm's (direct short).  I've even taken a wrench and moved those single wire sensors to make sure there isn't any corrosion between them and ground.