Looking to buy a new SUV

[Gwbarm]

I have been exploring all the options available, so many, its hard to choose. I have kind of narrowed it down to the Honda Pilot, Subaru Outback, and Kind of looking at the Outlander, although its a little small,  the new one is nice looking. Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations or gripes with any of these rides. I have driven Jeeps for the past 25  years and they have been great, but their price point has gotten to high. Expieriences good or bad would be helpful. Thanks!

[Mech]

I don't know that I'd call a subby a SUV, but I've been a fan of them since about 1973. It's not a very sensible infatuation because they aren't really the most reliable of the jap vehicles, nor the most economical, but I've had a good run out of all mine. I've been driving them for the last thirty something years, bought them all about ten years old and at about 150-200,000 and have only ever done cam belts and oil and filter, and coolant change when I first get them, then one head-gasket, about two  or three ball joints, some brake pads and I think I did a cv once. They just keep passing their inspections we have here and don't get a bit of maintenance.. And I mean no maintenance.. haha They've all died in the end because of rust, but they live outside and everywhere here is humid and no more than about ten miles from the coast. I've had 1974 1400, 1978 1600(two of), 1986 1800, 1990 2000, 1993 2200, and a 2005 2000.. I've owned two at a time mostly, one for the wife or kids and another for me. Oh.. Once I did have to overhaul an auto trans but that only cost 600 bucks for parts and oil. I've driven them on the land, which is steep and rough, and off roads and on beaches(not something I'd recommend, they lack the power for sand). I've done heaps and heaps of two-hundred mile trips towing a trailer that was bigger and weighed more than the car.. They've all just gone and gone. I'm rough on my vehicles (but listen to them) and don't take care of them, but the subarus I've had have been brilliant.. though.. I'd probably get and say the same if I'd had toyotas or nissans. 

I think though that a lot of the new ones have crap transmissions.. CVT.. might depend on the market. I wouldn't buy one of those.

Edited January 25 by Mech

[Gwbarm]

Thanks! It sounds like you have had a lot of Subarus, i think they are very nice cars, quality interior nice looking body lines, the best all wheel drive system out there, simple srait forward design, a few drawbacks, four cylinder engine, i dont caare for the turbo so i would go with the naturally asperated boxer 4 cylinder, very underpowered though, the CVT transmission im not so sure about. I do like everything about it except the CVT, but a lot of cars are going to that, maybe its the new age. It is a little small for me im 6:3 but my wife will be driving it more than me. Right now im leaning toward the honda, poorer gas milege but more power a double overhead cam 6 cylinder and larger cabin. Never really cared for the look of the pilot until they revised it in 2023. With the pressure to get more gas milege from the government they are using thinner oil and loosened up the engines for less friction, i heard the standard for Subaru was using a quart of oil every 3500 miles, i dont like that. My 2014 Jeep with 145000 miles on it uses no oil in 7500 miles i have always used mobile 1 in it. Not sure about the Honda.   

[Mech]

Yeah good engines shouldn't use any oil, well shouldn't need a top up anyway, between oil changes.

All my subs were non-turbo. They were a bit gutless for sure, but I'm never in a hurry.

I used to go to the city with people to help them buy a car and my suggestion was we'll look at a few candidates and choose the model you like best, then we'll look at as many of them as we can in a couple of days and compare their conditions and what they will need to make them good for a few years, and then choose the best one based on that. These were always second hand cars of course. We'd buy something that was the right price for us to do what was needed to make it good again, then take it home and do the work and people have always been happy with their/our choice. I've talked people into buying cars that had over heated, or that barely moved because the clutch was worn out, but were absolute bargains because every thing else about them was in excellent condition, and better than some other things that were running good but were worn out all over or had rust, and sometimes rust hidden under a new paint job. We'd get them cheap, I'd nurse them the two-hundred miles home and then do the work and they would be good for years. They were all cars with a few miles and years on them though, which used to be the norm here in N.Z... Especially for families in the country.

All modern cars are pretty good though, except for the occasional recognised fault some models have, so choose something you are comfortable in and like the look of I reckon. About the only thing that would deter me from a model I liked would be those horrible CVT, which seem prone to faults, and seem awful to drive as well. I don't know about there but here we can nearly always get a manual version of things. Some have manual, auto/twin-clutch and CVT options.

It's always a worry though buying the next car I think, so good luck with it..  haha

 

Oh.. And I'm sure you don't need to be told.. Make sure wife likes it..  haha

[Huapakechi]

Do yourself a favor and check out the repair statistics on ANYTHING you think of buying.  Every SUV has a weakness hidden somewhere, and you don't want to be back in the hills when it goes into self destruct mode.  Subaru used to be known for timing belt and head bolt issues.  I don't know about the newer ones.  Check with an owner or two, explore parts availability, and you might even look up the repair times for the most common failures.

If you are buying new (and not new to you) read the warranty carefully.  If you are buying used, watch out for anything that shows undercarriage damage.  More power usually means more abuse, but if it's cheap enough you can bring the dead back to life and have a good machine.

[Gwbarm]

I try to keep my wife in a new car, i say new car but shes been driving this one for 12 years, i buy new and drive it usually 100,000 miles, although this one is approaching 150000, and get another new one, we need one newer one to not be afraid of break downs on long trips.  I have never bought a new one for myself, i usually just take the old one. I actually like the newest Subaru, the Ascent, its more like what shes driving now. Its been getting some bad complaints and i dont really like the turbo matched with CVT, a recipe for disaster. The outback also has a CVT but it has good ratings. I dont particularly like the idea of a CVT in a car, but they are all going in that direction so i guess they have improved the technology over the years, plus better fuel milege. I just like gears, i guess im showing my age by making that statement. Still leaning toward the Honda Pilot, and may even look at another jeep but its going to be about 10000 more. They are getting good ratings but im not so shure the quality is still there and changing ownership so many times. 

[Mech]

Your wife's car sound like just the thing for me to buy..  haha.

Yeah I used to prefer manuals, but I've had autos for a few years now and they seem pretty good compared to thirty years ago.

The auto I overhauled for my self went bad at about 250,000km, and by that time the car would probably have needed or been on it's second clutch, and so the cost of parts was somewhat comparable to overhaul the auto or have done two clutches. They charge you an arm and a leg though to overhaul an auto, so I guess my considerations in all these calculations aren't the considerations or calculations I'd make for other people.

And yeah, it's good to have two cars, and a nice one for the wife. My cars, which are always station wagons, always used to end up smelling like oily old motors because of the car truck or tractor parts and tool box I inevitably used to end up having in the back.

[Huapakechi]

My newest vehicle is a 2004 F150 with 300K miles.  My daily driver is a 1987 F150.  I'd head to the hinterlands with either one, but I trust the 87 more.  The CVT transmissions seem too much like wizardry to me, but I prefer the older technology that does not depend on computers.  I've worked on vehicles and then a computer manufacturer doing repairs.  They're just too delicate AND there's the sensors, wiring, and programming that can fail.   Check the prices/availability on a replacement transmission before ya think about buying a car that has one.  The people that bought electric cars are choking at the price of a replacement battery.  As I've told owners of some cars, insure the hell out of it, leave the keys in the ignition and a dollar bill on the seat.  Ya better hope ya don't come back and find two dollars on the seat.

[Gwbarm]

When i said gears i meant geared automatic transmissions not CVT, she says she can drive a standard but i have never seen her do it, its all she can do to keep her hair and makeup fixed and steer at the same time without having to clutch and shift gears. I do love a standard transmission, i have an old Jeep CJ5 with a standard 3 speed, so much more fun to drive, but you are not going to go very fast on the highway and its about like riding a buffalo. 

[Huapakechi]

Wimmin are a caution on the road, and driving a standard only makes things worse.  Some can do it, but most SAY they can do it.

Those old CJs are not boulevard cruisers.  Ya almost need a 6" foam pad seat.  I'd think about an overdrive, but that short wheelbase and high center of gravity can be scary at highway speeds.  Tall narrow tires and they'll go almost anywhere.

From my Army experience, if ya can find an old M151, grab it.  Just drive real slow.  They can handle almost any terrain, but get real squirrely above 45mph.  The universals need lubed about six times a year, but everything else hangs together pretty good.

[Gwbarm]

I love those old army jeeps, that little 4 cylinder was like the little engine that could, so simple and so easy to fix, and smoothe running, mine is from the 70s with an AMC V-8 the most overpowered vehicle i have ever owned but a smooth running engine no accessories or pollution stuff. 

[Mech]

Ha.. #9,,  Dangerous ground Gw.. 

Edited January 30 by Mech

[Huapakechi]

Was this a swap or did it come factory with the V8?  It's been quite a while but when I worked for an AMC dealer in Colorado back in the late 70s all I saw were 4s and 6s.  The V8 has much too much power for a CJ, but if you're towing something they'll do it.

[Gwbarm]

It did come from the factory with the AMC 304 V8 i am the second owner and i have had it since the 80s. Great engine but not needed in a Jeep with a 3 speed. Works perfectly for what i use it for, when im going through the woods i put it in 4 wheel drive low in 3 rd gear and never have to shift and just ease through the woods. I had a 57 CJ5 with the 4 cylinder 3 speed when i was in High School never had more fun with any other vehicle i have ever owned, they really made them for work in those days, plenty of power with the 4 wheel drive and low gear and the Willys 4 cylinder. Dont do a whole lot of hunting anymore, but i do love going to the woods and exploring. 

[Huapakechi]

They are fun, but as with too many 4WD toys most have been beat to death by former owners.  One of the best I've seen was a 1960 International Scout.  It had sliding windows, a slant 4 cylinder, and was short and narrow.  Like every other manufacturer, they went for bigger, wider and more plush over the years, but they still had the "farm truck" style.

The best I can hope for is a "barn find" like my 87 F150 with 47K miles that cost me $50.

[Gwbarm]

I remember the scout very rare to see one now, see the old 60s broncos occasionally but havent seen a scout in years.

[Huapakechi]

The "cornbinders" are not all that common, and their neat trick of timing the V8s on #8 cylinder makes 'em less than favored.  Another problem is the lack of performance parts, prompting those that do have 'em to swap out those near bulletproof engines for something sexier.

[Gwbarm]

I have been looking at different options, right now the honda pilot is at the top of my list although its border line as being too large for what we need, i never really cared for the looks of the pilot until the 23 model now it looks nice, the V6 runs great but not as smooth as i expected. The outback is a great little car i see why it is loved by so many, quality interior although not as good as the honda, and to get that quality you have to go up to top trim levels which makes the price close to the pilot, a little small for me, great all wheel drive, dont care for the CVT transmision, but the engine is great, that boxer engine is probably the smoothest running engine on the market, not the turbo it has a roughness to it on acceleration, and the natural asperated is a little weak, but so smooth.  So too small too large So i looked at the highlander turbo 4 option only . The next option was the grand highlander but i liked the honda better. Maybe being picky but when you spend this much on a car i like doing my homework.

[Huapakechi]

Have you looked at the Suzuki or Nissan lines?  They have a decent reputation.

[Gwbarm]

 Thanks for the reply! Suzukis are no longer here in the states, the Nissan i have looked at briefly, the Pathfinder, and the Murano. 

[Huapakechi]

I haven't been following the small SUV market, and don't even know who has what models for sale.  I buy used and abused, fixing what's broke and driving like I have no cares and all the time in the world.  It's cheaper that way.

[Gwbarm]

Well! It took a while but i finally pulled the trigger and got the  Subaru Outback. I think it will better suit our needs than the Honda Pilot. I thik the Honda is probably the better vehicle, but its big and bulky and not really what we needed. There were things i didnt like about both vehicles, the pilots new engine which is a powerful V6 has auto shutoff of 3 cylinders when not needed, i dont like that technology, when it goes down its very expeensive to repair, the shifter has also been relocated to the console, electronic switches, looked like a recipe for diasaster, and gas milege was kind of bad, but not really for a vehicle that large.

Subaru gets great gas milege, dont like the CVT transmission and i will have to get used to the boxer engine, i have never owned a Japanese car, im a Jeep Guy all the way, but this is mainly for my wife to haul grankids around in, she babysits everyday while my daughter works, she likes Jeeps also, so we will see how it pans out. Thanks for all the input.

[Huapakechi]

Decisions like this should be made after careful consideration.  I'm skeptical of the CVT transmission myself, but time will tell.  Historically, Subaru have been tough little cars.  The mail route drivers up here like 'em.  Do pay attention to tightening the cylinder head bolts and changing the timing belts on schedule.

Good luck!

[Gwbarm]

Subaru newer engines have gone to a timing chain, but the new honda V6 still using a belt, another reason i went with subaru, i think the belts are good for what they are but annoying to remember to get them changed.

[Huapakechi]

And it gets damned expensive when ya don't change 'em.

[Gwbarm]

Yes they are all interferance engines

[Huapakechi]

Just one of the things to investigate when ya look to put too damned much money in purchasing a vehicle.  Just purchased a 2010 Chevrolet 3/4 ton 4WD.  The cost to replace the transmission is twice what I paid for the truck.  If the trans starts to go soft I'll leave the keys in the ignition and a dollar on the seat, hoping I don't come back to find two dollars on the seat.

[Gwbarm]

Those big chevy transmissions are fairly resiliant, depending on how it was used and how much towing of heavy objects it has done, hopefully it will last you a while, but it all goes back to money, we have become a throw away society because parts and labor has gotton so expensive, definately a different world than the one i grew up in, we fixed everything and used it until it couldnt be fixed anymore. 

[Huapakechi]

Working on cars and industrial equipment through the years has me less than trusting of anything computerized, having had very unhappy experiences with everything from fuel injected sawmill engines to a Bobcat skid steer that had more issues than my most recent ex wife to a year old Dodge one ton pickup that has permanently soured the owner on anything made by Dodge for the remainder of his life .  All of these examples couldn't be fixed by the dealer shops.  Then there's a heat/passenger door lock/window/seat adjust/right mirror/light problem on a GMC that requires a thousand dollar computer replacement.

All due to putting too many computers where they don't belong.  Sometimes I think I should show up to one of these repair jobs in a witch doctor's costume to chase out the little demons and pixies.

[Gwbarm]

I know what you mean i was just getting used to the bells and whistles on the 11 year old one and now i have one that beeps when i take my eyes off the road and turns off the car at a red light along with helping me steer and stop, all these safety features are going to cause me to wreck just trying to figure out what the car is trying to do.