Well, is this ready for the junk yard?

[Mech]

Yeah that's the big nut . I looked the parts up to see an exploded diagram, which often show things clearer than the photos do, and it shows there being a clip on the left side by that nut, but no clip on the right by the sprocket. It doesn't show anything holding the sprocket on. Very strange. Then, it shows different pictures for the 04 and 05 models !

No matter. That clip by the sprocket won't lever out while the hub is half covering it like that. You'll have to back the nut off and remove a clip from that side, then push the axle over to the right slightly I think, then the clip will come out.

[p5200]

The hub moves back and forth on the alxe when moving the sprocket. I'm hoping that's a sign that the hub isn't rusted on.

[Mech]

Oh ok, perhaps the hub will move across enough to get that clip out.

Here's the parts diagram, and it only shows one clip, part #8, and it's on the other side.

[p5200]

Yeah the nut has a clip just like the one on the right side. It's on the outer part of the nut. I suppose that might keep the nut from unscrewing?

The nut also has a set screw that ought to be fun lol!

[Mech]

At least the sprocket hub isn't seized on.. That's a win. Perhaps try knocking that hub over and seeing if the clip gets uncovered.

The tapered bearings shown must have some flange on the axle for them to get pressed up against when you tighten the big nut, but there's nothing like a flange shown on the axle, or a clip on that sprocket side, so I can't figure what confines the bearings to keep their free-play right.

The parts also describe that disc you've unbolted on the other side as being made of aluminium.. Dang yankies !

[p5200]

Got set screw out of the big nut. I assume it's standard threads? I hammered on hub but I think it's bottomed out.

Edited February 26 by p5200

[Mech]

Oh ok, just reread that manual you posted and it seems the bearings are only positioned by those clips, there is no adjustment. When the bearings get worn they get play and you throw them away.

No. The manual says to turn that big nut counter-clockwise to wind it in and reveal the clip.. So that nut must be left hand thread.. Dang yankies !

[p5200]

So with that clip at the end of that nut probably won't let it back off?

[Mech]

And, the exploded view of that axle in the manual shows it as only having one clip, but on the opposite side to what the parts diagram shows it's one clip. But in fact, your bike has two clips ! WTF !

#38 No, when you turn the nut counter-clockwise it winds in slightly and uncovers the clip, then you pull that clip and slide it along a little, then the shaft can be pushed over to the right to reveal the other clip.

Edited February 26 by Mech

[p5200]

5 minutes ago, p5200 said:

So with that clip at the end of that nut probably won't let it back off?

Yeah, it figures I'd have two lol! I've got a big pipe wrench I guess I'll give it a go.

[Mech]

And I noticed the diagrams do show two clips after all. They show one as being real small.

I should read and look more carefully..  haha. Can I blame it on my specs ?

[p5200]

I got the nut to move but it covered that more and bottomed out against the clip. Every is sandwiched between two clips. This is pretty crazy lol! Guess I'll have to pick up soon hope it doesn't rain not supposed to. 

[Mech]

Turn the nut the other way. It should wind inwards towards the center of the bike. The book says turning it anti-clockwise should do that, but if it didn't, then turn it clockwise.

And it's stopped raining over here so I'm off to have a tutu with my new toy.. A small excavator !

[p5200]

2 hours ago, Mech said:

Oh ok, just reread that manual you posted and it seems the bearings are only positioned by those clips, there is no adjustment. When the bearings get worn they get play and you throw them away.

No. The manual says to turn that big nut counter-clockwise to wind it in and reveal the clip.. So that nut must be left hand thread.. Dang yankies !

I'm still baffled by the way the service manual says counter-clockwise on the big nut. It states that will expose the retaining clip, neither direction will do that? I must be missing something somewhere. I appreciate all the help Mech! 👍

[Mech]

Looking at the small amount of thread I can see in one of your photos it looks like turning the nut anti-clockwise should wind it in to the center of the bike, and that should uncover the clip. It may not uncover it entirely, but hopefully it's just enough to be able to use a tiny screwdriver to lever it out. If it doesn't expose the clip enough I'd knock the axle from the other end to try and get it to tighten up on that other end clip.. that might just make the difference.

[Mech]

That photo looks good p52. Now knock the axle over with a block of wood and a sledge hammer and the other clip will come out.

[p5200]

I guess I need to remove the wheel on the left side. Do I need to remove the outer hub that the lug nuts bolt to so I can hammer on the axle?

[Mech]

I'd use a hunk of wood, end on on the hub, and a big sledge to tap it lightly across a fraction of an inch.

[Mech]

To free that sprocket hub up you could use a ball-pein hammer and go back and forwards along the bit you can get at in a nice line and after about a hundred taps it might have spread the metal and made it slightly bigger in the middle. If you turn it and do the same line of ball-pein hits in a nice line and all the hit marks right next to one other, and do it in three places around the circumference it will loosen it, or get lube under it. Failing that, I'd use three threaded rods, or two threaded rods with a bearing splitter behind the sprocket, and sometthing at the end of the axle and I'd pull it off. My very last choice would be to heat it up. I'd try not to use heat if it was me doing it.

[p5200]

I wonder if I took the whole axle shaft out if I could get at it better. According to the service manual I'm suppose to slide the axle shaft out now. But It's not going to just slide right out lol! I seen people on another forum talking about grinding a groove in the hub and splitting it apart. But they said you have to take the shaft completely out. If I go that far I might as well put in new bearings and seals in the carrier hub. I think I have better luck if I had someone bracing the opposite side when I'm hammering. That would stop a lot of the swaying which defeats the hammering process a lot.

[p5200]

I've been reading your post trying to comprehend everything. How would the threaded rods be used exactly. I don't have a ball pein hammer. My grandson might be able to get one from his shop where he works. It's hard to tell how much the hub has moved if any because the whole shaft moves back and forth about 1/4 to 3/8".

[Mech]

If you have a punch and hammer you could do the same thing, hammer in a line, in line with the axle. As you beat the sprocket hub on that thin part of it it will get ever so slightly thinner, and as it gets thinner the metal spreads and makes the hole in the middle bigger.

For the hammering to be effective though you need to support the shaft. A block of wood with something steel on top of it under the axle, with the weight of the bike on it, and the axle won't bounce around. And you could use the same block of wood and piece of metal under the sprocket bolts to split the nuts off with a cold chisel.

To use three threaded rods as a pulley you'd need to buy one or two or three rods from an engineering supply shop. They come in one metre or two metre lengths over here. Then you'd knock the bolts out of the sprocket hub, put the rods through the holes and put nuts on the end of the rods. Then you could use the sprocket and slide it along the threaded rods till it's near the end of the axle and wind three nuts down to the sprocket, then find some piece of metal, or even wood, to go between the sprocket and the end of the axle. Then when you tighten the three nuts by the sprocket the hub will get pulled towards the end of the axle.

Ten mill threads will give something like five tons of pull, and when you have one on each side of the axle and wind them down in sequence it will give two or three times as much pull. It'll move.

[p5200]

This is odd hub slides freely so far but comes to a metallic clank stop abruptly. I don't understand it?

[p5200]

The axle spleens are in no way holding the hub. 

[Mech]

I couldn't view the video. Which hub are you trying to move and how far does it slide before coming to a stop ? is it sliding nice and freely before the stop ? Could it be that the clip has caused a slight lip on the edge of it's groove and that hub is hitting that lip ?

[p5200]

The video takes about 10 or 15 seconds to load. I'm talking about the sprocket hub. When hammering the hub I think the whole shaft is moving out the right side. It's quit moving now seems like shaft is hanging up on the seal on the left side.  Was going to take the whole shaft out but it stopped moving. The spleens run all the way through the sprocket hub correct? If so I know the hub is moving out on the spleens some. I can slide the hub in and out easily for about an inch and a half. If I push the hub in as far as it will go I can see almosr 3/4" worth of axle spleens showing. Thats what makes me think the axle moved not the hub because before, I had no spleens showing. In the video there are no spleens showing. I can see the shat stopping at the seal on the left side when facing rear. Also the gap between the hub and the carrier housing is much wider now.

Edited February 28 by p5200

[Mech]

I think what you are hearing is the bearings inside that axle bearing housing. If the sprocket hub isn't moving on it's splines I'd recommend buying some ten mill threaded rod and pulling it off. Pulling the hub off is gentle, trying to bash it off and/or getting the axle out is going to damage the seals in that bearing housing. The seals may be damaged already.

The bearings are tapered bearings and as soon as they aren't being kept pressed towards one other by the two clips on the axle the cone part of the bearing gets a lot of play in it's cup, and that allows the axle to move up and down and that up and down movement will damage the seals.

The seals may be damaged already and in one of those photos it looked like the bearings may have a lot of mud and rust in them anyway, so if it was my bike I'd be considering pulling the entire thing apart, replacing the bearings and seals and fixing or replacing the sprocket hub. I'd invest the few dollars involved and get some threaded rod (except I already have a selection of threaded rod because it's so handy).

And the video didn't load here.. Probably my internet connection which is very variable from day to day.

[Mech]

Oh.. now it did load..  haha. So if the clip is out of the groove now, then what you will have there is a lip on the axle where the clip has been rubbing. You can probably feel it with your fingers ? Get a fine file and file the lip off.

Edited February 28 by Mech

[opnea]

Never back down never what? never give up

[p5200]

I'll check for a lip on the groove if it's not that then I don't know what to think. I'll take a photo close up of the groove so maybe I'll see it lol!. I'll also see if I can feel anything.  Thanks! 🙂