Another Bayou 220 no spark

[Dwight Williams]

Hey everyone, I've been scratching my head over this for most of the day.  I bought a couple of Bayou 220's, got them running (they've both been sitting), and started tweaking and fixing small things.  One of them is mostly done, the other had an aftermarket carb on it and I've been trying to sort that out.

 

Anyway, while adjusting the carb it died a few times, I restarted and moved on until it died and wouldn't restart.  I figured maybe I'd flooded it or something - after further attempts I realized I had no spark.  Since I have two identical machines I have many parts at my disposal.  I've swapped the CDI, spark plug and coil with no luck.  I have good resistance readings from the stator and pick up (135 and 110 respectively),  I don't have a peak voltage meter but I measure around 53VAC on the stator when cranking.  I have a 4 wire stator, not an alternator like the newer ones.  Grounds look good, I've checked the kill switch by verifying that it and the ignition switch grounds the black/yellow wire to the CDI.  I can turn the engine slowly and see the pickup short the meter as well, seems normal right?  So far everything I've checked looks the same on both machines.  I've got the service manual and wiring diagrams.  Do these readings make any sense?  I'm obviously missing something but I'm stumped.  thanks!

[Frank Angerano]

Have you checked the regulator/rectifier?

[Dwight Williams]

I disconnected, also checked resistance on the two yellow wires, isn’t that just the charging circuit?  I, maybe incorrectly, assumed it could run without it. I’ll swap it with the other one tonight when I get home from work.  Thanks. 

[Dwight Williams]

OK, I swapped the regulators and still no spark, so far I've swapped CDI, spark plug, coil, regulator.  I've checked resistance on stator, and pickup.  I have lights, starter, etc, it's just an ignition issue, not sure what I'm missing, I'd like to make sure I test everything I can before I start taking side covers off.

 

Thanks!

 

[Frank Angerano]

Man that’s a tough gremlin you got going on.  So the only few  things that could be doing this then is a short within the wiring maybe along the frame ? 
Could be a bad connection on one of the plugs even the single pin and sleeve plugs that are all over the harness. Maybe take them apart, clean up and add some dialectic grease and reconnect. 
Check to see that your ignition switch is ok, I’ve seen some people find that wiggling the switch allowed the bike to fire up due to poor contacts within the switch that sends voltage to the cdi.  Some only have two wires, a brown and white, if so then it’s good if your getting dash lights but check thats your model.  

You tested continuity on the kill switch that it’s opening and closing yes ? 

You checked continuity from each phase of the stator to ground yes ? (Should get no continuity) 

Main fuse on the starter relay?

Im just throwing random sh** out there and trying to jog my memory from my bayou. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Frank Angerano

[Dwight Williams]

Ok thanks, 

Stator not shorted to ground, fuse is good, (starter works).  I tested the ground side of the kill switch but not the hot side, but I don't think the starter turns with the switch off.  Also, it's a 1995 model, I don't see where the CDI actually gets any power,  I tested my good bike and I don't have 12V anywhere on the CDI with the key on.  I'll keep probing....  thanks for the input!!

 

 

[Dwight Williams]

...Also, the way I read it, the CDI will function as long as it has a ground, AC from the stator and a pulse from the pickup, as long as the yellow/black wire is open.  The kill switch and the key will both ground the yellow/black if in the off position.  I've tested this and it all seems right.  Also, now I'm getting a spark every now and then, usually when I just start the starter or when I just let off.  Continuous cranking yields no spark.  I swapped the coil and CDI from the good one again tonight, no luck.  

 

thanks

[Frank Angerano]

The cdi needs voltage to work.  
Take a look at this pic.

If this is your diagram for a US made 1995

I circled and arrowed the area.   The brown wire coming into the switch should be 12v +. It should send voltage to the Y/R wire which goes to the cdi. That Y/R wire should have 12 v at the cdi.  The cdi gets its pick up coil signal from the Bk/W wire coming from the pick up coil  and gets amplified and sent out of the cdi via G/W to the secondary ignition coil that supplies spark to the plug. 

Make sure your grounds are good including the main frame ground and on the secondary coil at the spark plug.  
  
The cdi has diodes inside them that can go bad and create stray voltage. 
Not sure if you tested the cdi on another bike but I have. A feeling it’s the cdi.   

[Dwight Williams]

Thanks Frank, Mine must be an 'early 95' because that is not the wiring diagram for my quad.  I don't have an alternator and I have a 4 wire ignition switch.  Completely different CDI as well.  My Y/R wire is grounded when either the kill switch is off or the key is off (or both) and open when in 'ready to run' mode.  I don't see any constant 12v feed to my CDI, and as I see it there shouldn't be.  I've swapped the good bike's CDI to the bad but I don't recall swapping the bad one to the good, I can try that tonight but I'm pretty sure it'll work.  I get the same intermittent spark with both CDI's and both coils.

 

Thanks!!

[Frank Angerano]

No alternator ?? 
 

[Dwight Williams]

No alternator, I have a stator and two wires come off of that to the rectifier/regulator for the charging circuit, two wires provide AC to the CDI box and two wires provide the pulse from the pickup to the CDI box.  The later models have an alternator that provides DC to the charge circuit and the CDI I believe.  I've attached the schematic I've been using that seems to match what I've got.

 

Thanks

[Frank Angerano]

Any luck ??

Have you tested the two wires feeding the cdi while cranking for voltage  ? 
 

I see your point about the wires feeding the cdi. There is a red/yellow wire coming from the kill switch going to the cdi as well as the ignition? Have you tested this wire for voltage as it comes out of the ignition with the key on ? 
 

[Dwight Williams]

Yes, the red and black/red coming from the stator have about 53vac while cranking.  the red/yellow wire has no voltage from the kill switch, it's open in the run position and grounded in the stop position.  I took the side cover off tonight to see if there was anything physically wrong, no issues found, the gap on the pickup is correct as well.

 

thanks

 

[Dwight Williams]

Ok, so I pulled the flywheel off of the 2006 bayou 250 and stuck it on the 1995 and it sparks!  So, I guess the flywheel is bad, still don't understand why.  Kawasaki lists different part numbers for the <95 and 96>.  Any reason they wouldn't be compatible?  All I know so far is that I have spark on the '95 with the '06 flywheel, haven't gone any farther than that.

 

Thanks

[Frank Angerano]

Wow thats great news. The flywheel must have either very weak magnetism or none at all.  Thats a rare occurrence to see that.  Have you tried to take a screwdriver and see how strong the magnets are on the inside while the flywheel is off? 

[Dwight Williams]

I compared the two with a screwdriver and there was no noticeable difference, not exactly a scientific test but still, it's weird that it was running and suddenly quit, does a flywheel really just die like that?  The flywheel was literally the last thing I thought it could be.  Anyway, I'm also not sure why the part numbers are different between the two flywheels, I know that the 06 has an alternator vs a mag/stator but the flywheels don't physically look any different.  I'm tempted to put the '95 flywheel on the 06 when I get the  top end done and see if it will spark. 

 

thanks

[Frank Angerano]

Not sure what the differences are but I'm shocked it fit!  On top of that if the magnifying is the same then it should work. Have you tried to put it back on and test it again? 

[Dwight Williams]

I'm going to order another flywheel on Ebay for this one and put the good one back on the '06 for now - I'm trying to get the '06 put back together so I can get it out of my garage.  I can't see any difference between them but there must be, otherwise Kawasaki would use the same part number all the way through.  I'm not surprised it fit on the shaft as the bottom ends are exactly the same on the two bikes.  The diameters also look the same but I'll try to get some measurements on them when I pull it back apart.

 

thanks

[Frank Angerano]

Sounds good brother, keep us posted. 

[Dwight Williams]

So, the new flywheel didn't fix it, nor did another flywheel off of another newer quad.  Just for fun I ordered a cheap CDI unit from Amazon and bang! Spark again.  I can still put the original CDI on the other bike and it runs.  I suspect a tolerance stack issue, weak pickup/flywheel matched with a weak CDI.  The other bike must have a slightly stronger pickup and/or flywheel so the CDI works with it.  Anyway, now that that works I need to find the source of an engine knock.  

 

thanks