1994 Bayou 300 4x4 goes into reverse without turning knob.

[Machias_Mike]

Hi there!

We just bought 4 acres and needed a work rig for moving stuff around and blazing trails. Been looking at buying a quad for a long time and finally got the opportunity.  Found a very good condition 1994 Kawi Bayou 300 4x4.  Runs great and seems to be in great operating condition with one little thing.

The unit seems to have an issue with reverse.  Previous owner did tell me about it and its totally usable but the issue is annoying enough that I want to try and fix it.  Im pretty mechanical oriented so don’t think this will (hopefully) be too much of an issue.  I bought the kawasaki shop manual on ebay and should be here next Friday but wanted to get a head start on it.

 

The issue seems to be similar to this post but I think may be more mechanical than just the switch.

https://www.quadcrazy.com/atvforum/topic/14281-1994-bayou-220-neutral-safety-switch/

 

Here goes!

 

1. Neutral light is always on when key in on position
   1. I found that the green wire coming out of the block from neutral switch is grounded to chassis.  When plugged in to switch light never turns on no matter what gear its in (and wont start).
2. Machine can go from 1st directly into Reverse if you don’t feather it. 
   1. This is the part that that makes me want to fix it.  I feel like its dangerous and could possibly do some damage.  It usually takes 3-4 tries to 'find' neutral.  
3. The reverse turn knob seems to be operable and cable is connected and operates the reverse 'selector' when turned.  Springs back when released both at the switch and at the 'selector' inboard of the shifter.
4. When in reverse the red reverse light does not illuminate

Based on above and looking at the post above it seems that this would indicate that the reverse stopper is 'broken' and rotated in an 'in gear' position.  I see a few posts on here where people have said it can crack.  If I plug the green wire back in and turn machine to 'on' I can move the shifter through all gears and the neutral light and reverse light stay off.  Again, to me it seems that the 'reverse stopper' is probably broken, stuck where the switch thinks its in a forward gear and the shaft is probably just spinning inside it.

 

Am I on the right track here?

I wanted to get a head start on this and looking at parts diagrams it looks like the part number for the 'reverse stopper' is 13091-1443, found one on ebay for $30 shipped.  I hate buying parts before tearing it down but if this is the likely culprit I would take a $30 gamble to buy it so I can have it on hand when the manual arrives.

 

The other question I have which I hope is an easy answer is none of the parts diagrams I have found show the bevel gear gasket part number.  Can anyone tell me what the part number is for this?

 

Many, many thanks for the info and I promise to post pics once I have it apart.

 

 

[MarkinAR]

Pretty common to bypass the neutral safety switch because it can be inconvenient to have to click back down to neutral to hit the start button.  In mud bikes (every Honda 300 or 420 i've owned) I always bypass the neutral safety and reverse lockout because it SUCKS to be in a mudhole and struggle with the shifter and reverse lockout.

On the bayou though, I "think" reverse lockout is cam driven on the side of the motor internally and pretty common for that cam to rotate and lock itself out.  If it were mine, I'd prefer reverse lockout always be bypassed, but there is a danger there.  If you're rolling fast enough forward and drop straight to reverse...boom goes the rear ujoint.

[Machias_Mike]

MarkinAR,

Thanks for the reply, I do appreciate the input but for a newb like me this is really an annoying thing and a safety issue. 

The real issue I have is that there is no neutral most of the time.  It goes from 1st directly to reverse.  i.e. I think I am in second (but actually in first) and go to downshift to first and it throws it into reverse.  Its actually really hard to 'find' neutral as you have to go all the way to reverse and barely lift up, almost like a half kick, any more and it goes into first.  

Still havent decided 100% that i am going to dig into it as it looks like both front end, rear end, exhaust and engine all need to be loosened to get the bevel gear cover off but its really something i would prefer to have working.  If its something i can do in a weekend I think its worth it.  

Still having major trouble finding the gasket though.  None of the online diagrams i see for the 300 4x4 have the gasket shown as far as I can see.

[MarkinAR]

You're right, I forgot that 1st to reverse really is almost a half shift.  I can't remember for sure, but I think the cam for the reverse lockout is on the clutch side and if so, you should be able to get at it just by removing the clutch cover.  There's probably a service manual in the downloads section of this forum.  Just check the minimum qualifications to be able to download.

[Machias_Mike]

Got my book yesterday and decided to dive in.  

This is def not something someone not mechanically inclined should attempt.  I probably had to remove 75 nuts and bolts to get the bevel gear off.  The front driveshaft (propeller) came right off.  The rear required putting a jack under the motor and then removing the lower trailing arm mount and upper shock mount.  I could then move the left tire and left side of the rear back and was able to get rear driveshaft out.   Saw on a youtube video that the its easier to remove motor mounting bolts and move motor forward an inch to get the bevel gear off.  Def a good idea to get a piece of cardboard and punch holes in it and put the bolts in so you know where they go during assembly.  As far as manuevering the motor to get the bevel gear out I had to remove the skid plate, put a jack under the motor, remove all motor mounts and then lift the motor about a half inch.  I then took a spreader clamp and pushed the motor forward about 3/4 inch and was able to jimmy the bevel gear case off.  I also had to tap the bevel gear with a wood dowel on the top and bottom (from the other side) to get the gasket to break loose.

Pic 1 is of front and rear driveshaft removed, motor mounts removed and all (most) bolts out of bevel gear.

Pic 2 is of bevel gear case removed

Pic 3 if of 'reverse stopper' behind the neutral/reverse switch.  As you can see the stopper is broke in half. Looking at the exploded parts view I was also missing the pin and spring that go with it.  The must have fell out and went out with a previous oil change as I could not find them.  

Pic 4 is a close up of the broken reverse stopper. 

Here is a parts list of what I think i need and ordered yesterday

• HOLDER,NEUTRAL SWITCH 13091-1443
• PIN 92043-1287
• SPRING 92081-1763
• GASKET,GEAR CASE (early-98)  11060-1229   OR    11060-1714 (99-up)

I could not find 11060-1229 so I ordered 11060-1714.  Im hoping they are the same through the years, partzilla shows a different part number for klf300c up to 1998 and then a different one for 1999 and on. I looked at about 50 side by side pics before I said screw it and ordered.  Will know if it fits hopefully sometime next week.

Hoping this fixes all the issues I first stated and the machine is safe after this (albeit with the annoyance of having to use the reverse knob).  

More to come!

 

[MarkinAR]

Pretty common for that reverse lockout to grenade and parts disappear. Not sure where the weakness is there but most of them do that. Glad you got it worked out and moving towards repaired. 

[Machias_Mike]

Another thing i will add is you have to remove the nut on the bevel gear to get the bevel gear bearing holder out as the gasket goes behind it.  I tried to 'hold' the gear and remove it (for about a half hour) with a breaker bar and screwdriver in the teeth of the gear.  Finally i was like, "maybe i should try an impact wrench".  It came right off with the impact.  I didnt hose up any of the gears but was close with the amount of torque that thing is on with.  The book suggests removing the right side of the case and holding the primary and secondary gears with a $100 'gear holder, special tool'.  Luckily the impact worked and I did not have to dig into the right side.

Just now, MarkinAR said:

Pretty common for that reverse lockout to grenade and parts disappear. Not sure where the weakness is there but most of them do that. Glad you got it worked out and moving towards repaired. 

The break is in line with the both of the machined holes (or maybe it is cast) in the piece.  Must just be the weak point and i can see how if you were really mashing on it into reverse without turning the knob that it puts a lot of pressure on that area.

[BigRuss]

I just wanted to say thanks to both of you for great insights, conversation, pictures, and comments. And I don't even own one of these quads, although I do own 5 other quads. And Mike, listing your parts needed is great for people with the same problem being able to 'get the parts on the way'. The quad does look in great shape for a 94. 

[Machias_Mike]

Well bad news from partzilla. They said “HOLDER,NEUTRAL SWITCH 13091-1443” is on back order with no eta. I called them and they said mfg has none and they may come but I should look on eBay. Looked on eBay while on the phone and found a single new one. Guess who the seller was..  partzilla. I asked the rep how they could be selling the same item on eBay if they don’t physically have it and they really did not have a response. That’s a pretty shitty practice if you ask me and I would totally give bad feedback if I ordered it from there and they could not meet “expected delivery”.  Anyhow, found the last used one (combined with a lot of other parts I don’t need) on eBay for $45 and ordered so there is still some hope. Quad is in pieces in the middle of the garage waiting on ground shipping 

[MarkinAR]

Glad you're getting it moving forward. Always use an impact to break the clutch nuts BTW. It takes very little hammering from an impact but tons of slow torque with a break over bar. Hardened steel in the threads just behaves that way. You're very likely to break something with a break over bar and rarely likely with an impact taking it apart. 

[Machias_Mike]

So ebay used parts came today.   A lot of extra parts for reverse knob system but the ones I needed were in there and seemed to fit.  Ordered on Tuesday, delivered on Thursday!

• HOLDER,NEUTRAL SWITCH 13091-1443
• PIN 92043-1287
• SPRING 92081-1763

Got them installed and it seems to work as it should, no way to really tell until I get the gasket and put it back together.

Partzilla still sitting on my order...  Says "Available 4/1."  At this point i cancelled all the items but the bevel gear gasket.  I just ordered it on ebay as well so prob be here before partzilla even ships it.  They wont get any more of my business.  Totally BS that they show items in stock when they are not.   Much easier, faster and cheaper to order on ebay at this point.  I guess we'll see in the future if I need something but at this point they are not going to be the first place I look.  

[MarkinAR]

I gave up on Partzilla last year and buy new parts from Babbitt's.  I get them in a couple days every time.  Can Am parts I usually get from Can Am Guy.  Partzilla went to crap due to massive orders during 'Rona builds last year and have never recovered.

[Machias_Mike]

Just want to close the loop on this.  My machine has been back up and for 4 days with no issues.  Reverse works as intended and when I am moving I can confidently downshift without worrying it will go into reverse while moving.  Yup the little knob kind of sucks when you want to quickly go into reverse but totally worth it to know the machine is safe.  

I will add for anyone else that is looking for a gasket for this that I ended up buying both gaskets and found although the below part numbers are different and show for different years on the parts diagram THEY ARE IDENTICAL.   You can use either of these gaskets on a 1994 klf300c 4x4

GEAR CASE  (bevel gear/sub transmission)      11060-1229 (early-98)      11060-1714 (99-up)

[Txbackyardrepair]

I know this is a very old thread but was just wondering what the torque values and sequence was to get the gear case back on I too am doing a repair and about ready to finish it up but can’t find the torque values anywhere for the 6mm and 8mm bolts

[MarkinAR]

1 hour ago, Txbackyardrepair said:

I know this is a very old thread but was just wondering what the torque values and sequence was to get the gear case back on I too am doing a repair and about ready to finish it up but can’t find the torque values anywhere for the 6mm and 8mm bolts

Something around 9 ft lbs most likely. I always just use a 1/4 ratchet and go snug, no more. Factory spec torque value is often too much for aging cast aluminum and it'll blow the threads out before getting to the value. 

[Txbackyardrepair]

Thank you is that for the 8mm and the 6mm

[MarkinAR]

Snug with a 1/4" ratchet is good enough for any side case bolts. They are easy to strip the threads on.