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2011 kingquad 500 XRI has a miss and a cough.


olddude
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When I bought this ATV I noticed a slight miss between mid and high speed. Now I notice it has developed a bad cough as well as the miss. At first it was mainly when you first started, the cough that is, now even after the bike is warm. I also notice that I have an exhaust leak right behind the motor is it possible the leak and cough are related? I haven't pulled any of the plastic off yet I was just wondering what to look for once I do as it will be a big pain when I do.

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18 hours ago, Mech said:

Is it a carby or fuel injected motor ? I know what a miss is, but what is a cough ? Do you mean it spits back out the intake ?

I doubt the exhaust is your problem.

Yeah me too but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Cough, Sounds somewhat like a cough I guess and yes I think maybe it's spitting back up through the intake. It's fuel injected I don't even think they had a carb 500 in 2011. It's random on the cough but it does it pretty much all through the RPM range.

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Ok... I'm not familiar with the model.  It's always the recommended thing to check or do a standard tune before trying to find defects. That would include the fuel filter and any vacuum hoses if the bike has emission control components, such as a vapour trap canister.

A tight valve clearance could cause that, so could a defective or incorrectly adjusted sparkplug, or a lean mixture. Those, apart from the sparkplug though, will be temp related.. they probably won't be the problem from cold.

They used to say on older models that as part of the standard tune and service that you should take a bung out at the back of the muffler and run the bike to drain any accumulated gunge.. I've tried it heaps of times and never got anything out, but they seem to think the mufflers block.. A blocked muffler could cause your symptoms, and it might be why the muffler's leaking.. A leak at the muffler won't cause the miss, but it  perhaps it would be worth checking the exhaust isn't blocked.

I'd check all those things first, then start looking for electrical/electronic problems..

Your observations have been good so far. It's useful, vital even, to note the symptoms in as much detail as possible, and also the circumstances such as throttle positions, temp, load, time running, rough ground, rain.. anything we notice that seems to consistently causes the problem because they are often the thing that helps diagnose the problem, and, then we can repeat the conditions after the work to be sure we have fixed it.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Mech said:

Ok... I'm not familiar with the model.  It's always the recommended thing to check or do a standard tune before trying to find defects. That would include the fuel filter and any vacuum hoses if the bike has emission control components, such as a vapour trap canister.

A tight valve clearance could cause that, so could a defective or incorrectly adjusted sparkplug, or a lean mixture. Those, apart from the sparkplug though, will be temp related.. they probably won't be the problem from cold.

They used to say on older models that as part of the standard tune and service that you should take a bung out at the back of the muffler and run the bike to drain any accumulated gunge.. I've tried it heaps of times and never got anything out, but they seem to think the mufflers block.. A blocked muffler could cause your symptoms, and it might be why the muffler's leaking.. A leak at the muffler won't cause the miss, but it  perhaps it would be worth checking the exhaust isn't blocked.

I'd check all those things first, then start looking for electrical/electronic problems..

Your observations have been good so far. It's useful, vital even, to note the symptoms in as much detail as possible, and also the circumstances such as throttle positions, temp, load, time running, rough ground, rain.. anything we notice that seems to consistently causes the problem because they are often the thing that helps diagnose the problem, and, then we can repeat the conditions after the work to be sure we have fixed it.

 

 

Thanks, I haven't had the time to mess with it for awhile but I want to get it running right before hunting season. When I get the time I'll pull some of the covers off and go over the basics. Lean mixture? doesn't the ECM control all that. I haven't been able to find a service manual for this ATV. I downloaded several but they turned out to be the wrong ones. The closest one I found is a 2009, 450 AXI and that's been close enough up til now. 

I looked at where it is leaking and I can see that someone has wraped muffler tape around that area and it has come loose. When I first got the bike I didn't hear any leaks and it is strange that the cough/spit thing shows up about the same time I noticed the leak. As far as the muffler being stoped up I guess that is a possibility but when I first got it I was looking at it because it was a tad bit loud for my taste and I could tell it was passing gas because I could feel it. Though I guess it could be partially stopped up but if it was stopped up I would think it would be boggy and hardly run. This thing has plenty of power and aside from the little spit every now again it takes off from a dead stop to WOT with no hesitation. Also when you give it gas and while it is excellerating you don't get these miss/cough/spit it just goes. I only notice it when you are just moving along at a set speed.

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21 hours ago, Mech said:

A blocked fuel filter or low fuel pressure could cause a lean mixture.

Only at set speeds is probably significant..

I thought we'd sorted the model and got the right manual.. So what have you noticed about the bike that isn't as the manual says ?

I'll check the filter later today. The only manual I could find that was close was the 2009, 450X. I went to a suzuki dealer to get one but I just couldn't see me paying $160.00 for one. I guess you could call me a cheap scape. 

Most of the stuff is the same, plastics, suspension seems the same, drivetrane, brake system all I could find that was different was the engine for obvious reasons and some wiring.

I never could get an answer on how many changes they may have made to the engine, like ign, fuel system and a few other things. from 2009 and 2011. 

I did find the exhaust leak. The connection between the header pipe and the muffler. It will not tighten and someone shimed the connection with muffler tape I guess just to get by so they could sell it. The tape fell out and thus it started leaking. It's a slip fit there and the clamp that is spot welded to hold it in place just will tighten enough to make a secure fit. In fact, once I unbolted the muffler it just fell out and the clamp was as tight as it would go. I don't know if that clamp has stretched to it's limit or if the connector itself has worn enough to where it won't tighten up. Then, I guess someone could have put the wrong muffler pipe on it that is a little larger. I have been looking for an automobil muffler clamp but can't find one small enough.

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The join there is meant to have a thick walled sleeve of somethng like asbestos. https://www.mickhone.com.au/partFinder/fiche/suzuki/2011/lt-a500x/muffler#next

There will be too many tiny differences for anyone to explain to you. You need to get the manual, (which can be downloaded for free), and look in parts listings(That site I've posted shows two LTA500X and LTA500XP), and figure the differences out. In the back of the service manual it will have a section called the supplement quite likely, and there they mention any differences. What's not in the supplement section, is the same as the main part of the manual

If you confirm what model you have, I'll download the correct manual and have a read and see if I can help..

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If you go to https://www.mickhone.com.au/partFinder/fiche/suzuki#content and look in the years 2009 and 2011, you will see there are several models of LTA500. Have a look in every model and check their wiring sections. In the 2009 models, down the bottom of the section listings there is a unclassified section, and in there there are wiring listings as well, check those and then have a look on your bike whether it has that box with hoses and wires coming off it..

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I think your basic model is probably a LTA500XP/Z. That should cover the running gear. The other differences should just be decorative as far as I can see. I think too that your particular bike will be a 2012.. they had lower handlebars.

And, I think a good place to start with your problem would be to check there are no air leaks between the injector and the engine.. Including any hoses that could let air in. Engine start sprayed around the throttle body while it's running may show something.

 

 

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And looking through the manual I see the muffler doesn't have a drain bung, but it does have a spark arrestor at the back, with three bolts holding it..Those definitely block up.. I'd clean that and fix the exhaust leak.

Then I'd check the spark plug and gap, look for air leaks, then anything that would cause it to not get enough fuel.. Low injector voltage, fuel filter, bad connection to injector.. Then electrical, air temp sensor, water temp sensor.. If those are out of range, but still connected, they won't cause a trouble code but can still make the mixture wrong. If the temp sensors(or anything) are causing a slightly lean mixture, it will probably run ok with hard acceleration when the ecu tells it to give it more gas, but falter and possibly backfire out the inlet when you throttle back or run it at light loads..

If you can confirm whether it has that canister with  hoses and wires it will be helpful.

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16 hours ago, Mech said:

The join there is meant to have a thick walled sleeve of somethng like asbestos. https://www.mickhone.com.au/partFinder/fiche/suzuki/2011/lt-a500x/muffler#next

There will be too many tiny differences for anyone to explain to you. You need to get the manual, (which can be downloaded for free), and look in parts listings(That site I've posted shows two LTA500X and LTA500XP), and figure the differences out. In the back of the service manual it will have a section called the supplement quite likely, and there they mention any differences. What's not in the supplement section, is the same as the main part of the manual

If you confirm what model you have, I'll download the correct manual and have a read and see if I can help..

Thanks.....I believe you helped me out with the serial number search thing awhile back. If I remember there were a couple letters or numbers in the serial # that didn't seem right but from that we decided that this bike is a 2011 LT A 500X L1 E33. I looked over parts manuals for a week or more looking at differences in the different models and years to come up with this model #. The problem has been that I haven't been able to find a manual for that model for the 2011 year. I'm thinking that any 2011 manual for the 500 would do because as others and you have stated the main difference is the cosmedic parts and some of the 500's had power steering which mine doesn't.

As far as the muffler and pipe. I looked at the parts listing on partzilla and it's confusing at best for me any way. If you look at the pic you see the exhaust pipe and the connector. They are two different parts. But when I look at what I have got in front of me I see the pipe and on the end there is a medal stub sticking out about maybe 3". I started to order the connector just to see what I would end up with but haven't done it yet. You mention a thick walled sleeve and I'm wondering if that just fits over this stub I see and it just doesn't show the stub in the parts list? That would make sence because yesterday I found some aluminum tape that I wrapped around this stub to shim it out a little and it did help to stop the leak but it still has a small leak. I'm going to order that part and hopefully it will fit on the stub and solve this problem. I understand how misleading some parts lookup books can be because I worked on boat motors for 30 years and I know you have to have a lot of imagination sometimes when looking at those drawings.😕

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14 hours ago, Mech said:

Do any of these look like your manual ?  Scroll right down.. https://www.manualslib.com/brand/suzuki/offroad-vehicle.html 

I believe there was one for KingQuad 500 but it don't say anything as far as a year goes.

 

14 hours ago, Mech said:

Do any of these look like your manual ?  Scroll right down.. https://www.manualslib.com/brand/suzuki/offroad-vehicle.html 

 

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7 hours ago, Mech said:

And looking through the manual I see the muffler doesn't have a drain bung, but it does have a spark arrestor at the back, with three bolts holding it..Those definitely block up.. I'd clean that and fix the exhaust leak.

Then I'd check the spark plug and gap, look for air leaks, then anything that would cause it to not get enough fuel.. Low injector voltage, fuel filter, bad connection to injector.. Then electrical, air temp sensor, water temp sensor.. If those are out of range, but still connected, they won't cause a trouble code but can still make the mixture wrong. If the temp sensors(or anything) are causing a slightly lean mixture, it will probably run ok with hard acceleration when the ecu tells it to give it more gas, but falter and possibly backfire out the inlet when you throttle back or run it at light loads..

If you can confirm whether it has that canister with  hoses and wires it will be helpful.

I looked at the spark arrestor yesterday and it was clean. Also I already checked the plug and the gap and they looked good but I never was any good at looking at a spark plug and be able to guarentee it was good. Sometimes I have pulled them off the shelf and they were bad. Do you know off hand what plug is supposed to be in there I changed the one that was in there when I bought it but I just put back what was in there. 

I'm not sure about that canister can you tell me where to look for something like that? All those parts a packed in there pretty good and it's hard to tell what's in there unless you take a lot of plastic off and with this bike it's a real pain because of the way the original guy patched this thing up. One day I might put new plastic on it but I wanted to put a little time on it to see what I have before I spent that much money on plastic then have the engine poop out.

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The bikes are all the same from 2008 to 2016(I think 16, might be later). The LT-A500XP or the KQ500 manuals are both right for you.

As long as the spark plug gap is right it will be ok.

The exhaust.. you will have to expand the muffler out to get it to fit over the sealing sleeve. The stub is so the sleeve can't get pushed too far along the pipe as you fit the muffler on. Some just have a ring welded on instead. If the clamp is welded to the muffler,you should cut the weld and take it off, then use a succession of bigger sockets as anvils to tap against from the outside of the mufflers tube. Put a big socket on an extension (for a handle), and drive it in tight, then beat the distorted sections of pipe down against it, gently, then use a slightly bigger socket driven in a bit tight and repeat the process. The new sealing sleeve is thick and soft and has to slip onto the pipe, and into the muffler nicely, or it will get chewed up.

That box with hoses is I think going to be a canister to catch fumes from the fuel tank, so follow breather hoses from the tank and you may find it. It is probably only on certain models(californian and some european markets most likely). If you read right through the manual it will no doubt explain it.

If you work your way through those steps I list above I'm sure you will find the problem.. without buying a lot of parts that aren't needed..

Get a manual, the one with the most pages will be best. Have a read. If you find anything that doesn't seem right ask and I'll check t out again.

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16 hours ago, Mech said:

The bikes are all the same from 2008 to 2016(I think 16, might be later). The LT-A500XP or the KQ500 manuals are both right for you.

As long as the spark plug gap is right it will be ok.

The exhaust.. you will have to expand the muffler out to get it to fit over the sealing sleeve. The stub is so the sleeve can't get pushed too far along the pipe as you fit the muffler on. Some just have a ring welded on instead. If the clamp is welded to the muffler,you should cut the weld and take it off, then use a succession of bigger sockets as anvils to tap against from the outside of the mufflers tube. Put a big socket on an extension (for a handle), and drive it in tight, then beat the distorted sections of pipe down against it, gently, then use a slightly bigger socket driven in a bit tight and repeat the process. The new sealing sleeve is thick and soft and has to slip onto the pipe, and into the muffler nicely, or it will get chewed up.

That box with hoses is I think going to be a canister to catch fumes from the fuel tank, so follow breather hoses from the tank and you may find it. It is probably only on certain models(californian and some european markets most likely). If you read right through the manual it will no doubt explain it.

If you work your way through those steps I list above I'm sure you will find the problem.. without buying a lot of parts that aren't needed..

Get a manual, the one with the most pages will be best. Have a read. If you find anything that doesn't seem right ask and I'll check t out again.

Ok, that all makes sense. I just didn't know what I was working with by just looking at the parts diagrams because none of them show that stub. I already removed the clamp, someone had tried to get it off at some time and banged it up pretty good but I did manage to get it straightened out. I had to thread on a thread chase to the bolt and run a tap through the hole to clean the threads up.  Where it was spot welded it left a hole in the flange but I welded the hole full then ground the rough spots down smooth. I have a friend that owns a muffler shop and I'll get him to expand the end of the tube to fit the connector also. I orderd the connector and a new plug yesterday and that should take care of at least one of my problems.

I did look around for that box, someone else, (maybe you) had mentioned that when I was trying to figure out what I had when I first got the bike. Just looking at it at a glance I'd say it didn't have one but I'll look around some more.

Also, I downloaded that KQ 500 manual yesterday so that should take care of that. The only difference I see so far is that manual has a section on power assist steering so I should be good on that too. 

I know this bike was treated pretty rough in it's other life. In fact I almost passed it up when I saw that it had had a snorkel kit on it at one time and when I removed the seat I could see water marks up past the battery box. But it started and ran good so I decided to take the chance. At the time I wasn't too concerned about the Frankenstein plastic situation because overall the rest of the bike looked pretty solid. I think it will be a good machine once I get a few of these little bugs worked out. Oh.....Thanks so much for what you have done, It's kind of rare to find a site that has people like you that will actually take their valuable time and use it to help others like you have done. Semper fi

 

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A shovel this time of year ain't a good idea anyway.....

I do have a confession to make though. I told you that I had changed the spark plug in that bike but never did. I remember now that I started to but found out I didn't have the right one so I ordered one. That was a couple months ago and that day I changed the plug in my old Gravely and one of my Wheel Horses. I also put in a new air filter in the bike and forgot all about the spark plug. I don't know why but later on all I remembered was spark plugs and air filters. 

Fast forward to now I was working on my plasma table Sat. and there were some parts on top of it for my lawn mower and another little ATV I have and among those parts I found a spark plug that I didn't know what it went to..........Then like a ton of bricks it hit me that it was the plug for the 500 that I thought I had replaced. I looked it up and sure enough it was. One look at the plug boot and I knew that I never replaced it, in fact I thought I was going to rip the wire in half trying to get it off. Once I had it in my hand I could see that it was badly worn, in fact the center electrode had worn down way below the end of the plug and the gap was over .060 right at double what it was supposed to be. Once I replaced it with the new one and started the bike it ran much better, imagine that! It started much better also. 

A bit later I had the time to take it out for a short run and after about a half hour I was satisfied that it was almost fixed. I said almost because although the little miss was gone and it ran much better it still had that cough,sneeze, back fire through the intake. It wasn't as bad it only did it twice the whole time I ran it. Before it would do this pretty much all the time especially at lower speeds while just riding along at a steady speed. Give it the juice and it goes like a bat out of [email protected] no stumble, miss or anything. 

It has always been cold natured and ran poorly right after a cold start. Once it warmed up a little it would run a little better but had that miss and what I'll call cough. Now it runs much better when cold has no mid to hi miss just that every now and again cough, sneeze, back fire through the intake thing. If it stayed like that I could almost live with it but in the back of my head I would always know it was an accident waiting to happen.

Also I was thinking......when I replaced the air filter I replaced it with one of those K&N filters do you think that's causing a lean fuel mixture due to the extra air flow they are supposed to give? Just a thought, the old one was badly worn and really dirty.

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Ha.. that's pretty funny Dude.. I get that sort of thing making dinner...  After dinner I notice a board with veges I'd forgotten to throw in there.. Or find a steak in the cooler !!

And round here, the ground is hard as concrete in places in summer.. so this is the time for cleaning drains etc.. Mine are done..

It would be a good plan to check the temperature sensors are reading accurately. If it thinks the motor is slightly hotter than it is it will lean it out at light throttle. There's an air and a coolant temp sensor..

It might come right after a bit of riding. The software makes adjustments to compensate for the long term effects, like blocked or new aircleaners, blocked exhausts, worn motors. They make "short term" adjustments as they warm, and other adjustments as you load it up hills and give it more or less throttle. If they notice knocking/detonation. or needing to inject a lot of fuel too often, they make a "long term" adjustment, which gets saved and are then the new base figures from which they make the short term adjustments as you ride. So they retard the ignition timing till it learns you have better grade fuel say, or richer till you restore the vacuum.. The long term adjustments will slowly readjust over several stop start, cold hot, little throttle full throttle cycles.

If you want to speed up the process, start it from cold and take it for a ride that incorporates all manner of riding.. At least thirty seconds of each.. Thirty seconds of each cold, and then thirty seconds with it hot.. using little throttle and full throttle, and slow speeds and high speeds, and till it gets fully hot. Then repeat.. After probably three cycles it should have relearned. One long ride doesn't do it.

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HeHeHe......I hate it when you sit down for a thick juicy steak and remember it's still in the cooler. Although that's about the way I felt when I figured out about that plug. I still can't believe I admitted to doing that.😯

I'll try the learning trick and see what happens. Yesterday I needed to take a short trip through the woods to do some relic hunting and it started up like nornal but it shut right off with a little spit sort of like the back fire thing. I tried several times to get it going and after about 5 attempts it started but ran like crap spitting back through the intake and really boggy. I didn't think I was going to be sble to get her going. Finally it cut off again but started right back up and I managed to back it out of the shop. When I took it out of reverse and put it foward it shut off again but started right back up. I finally got it going and several times I though it was going to cut off but I was able to toggle the throttle back and forth and it finally got to where it picked up speed. Once I got it moving along it did seem to run a little better and I got to the place I needed to get to. I was worried that if I did cut it off if I would be able to get it going again but I went ahead and shut it down. I hunted for around 3 hours and one I got back and got it loaded back up I hit the start button and it started right up. It did spit and cough a couple times but once I got to where I could get up some speed it ran ok all the way back to the shop.

I did notice one thing, well maybe two. When I first had trouble getting it started I noticed a red light right to the right of the green neutral light. I cut the switch off to see if it would go away but it it came back on. It did this several times until it finally went out and that's when it finally started. The light never came back on the whole time I was riding it. I've never noticed that light before so I'm thinking it was why it wouldn't start. I looked around to see what that light is but I haven't been able to find anything.

The second thing I noticed was a noise like a ticking sound that I never noticed before. It only does it at low speed when I give it gas and once it gets going it quits. I'm thinking the reason I couldn't hear it before was because of that exhaust leak I had. It was making a lot of noise compared to how it sounds now. Don't know for sure and is just a thought. When I first fixed the leak it ran really good and I thought everything was good. 

Then I replaced that spark plug and the first time I rode it it seemed a little better. It sat for a couple days until yesterday and it started this next chapter.

There was one other thing I did when I changed the plug. I always like to put fuel additive in the gas when I plan to leave them sitting for a couple weeks. I also sometimes put some in the fuel tank when I suspect maybe there may be some fuel related problem like water or trash in the tank. I have had that stuff bring many sick boat engines back to life both carb and FI. It's Star tron fuel enzyme fuel treatment. It does a really good job of cleaning the whole fuel system. I guess it's possible that this stuff could have broke up a wad of crap and stopped up something.  Again just a thought.....

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You need to check that the air temp sensor, and the coolant temp sensor, are both producing the correct range of figures for the ecu.. Or the ecu will be making the mixture wrong.. Check cold, and hot..

The fuel filter should be able to take out any dirt in the fuel system, but if there had been a bit of moisture in there, you may have a sticky injector now. There is stuff called injector cleaner for in the fuel.. Don't know it does much good, but may be worth a try if the sensors are both ok. I wouldn't mix it with the other stuff though.

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Hey Mech........I checked the ECT and everything seems ok, well maybe. This may be a dumb question but where in the parts lookup can you find these sensors? I looked all over and none seems to be listed. The only thing I could find was the ECM. The reason I ask is that I couldn't check the resistence on the sensor itself. There is just no way to get in there to check it without taking it out. I tried and I'm afraid if I really try it will be no good by the time I do get it out and I thought of buying a new one before I do take it out just in case. 

I couldn't even get to the IAT it's packed in there so tight I couldn't even get my hand on the connector. I could maybe get to it if I removed the airbox or maybe the front fender but it's so close to hunting season I hate to open up that can of worms right now. It is runing ok enough to get through the season and I planned on getting a new fender sometime after the season is over. 

The miss is gone I think changing the plug fixed that, it's just that little spit back I get every now an again at lower speed that's left, other than that it runs well. 

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