Looking for a CDI box for 2000 Big Bear 400

[Gwbarm]

Thanks!

[Mech]

There ya go..

 

[QuadMan49]

1 Hour of chipping away, and my first gimps of the circuit board. it would be ten times faster without all those mixed in white plastic bits.  

[Gwbarm]

Good job! I will also try anything once. What you going to use for parts to rebuild it.

[Mech]

Those capacitors should have their specs written on them, but everything else, all the tiny surface mount parts, they are pretty much unidentifiable.  They also blow without the obvious physical damage and heat that conventional components show.

I'll be mightily impressed if you manage to fix that one Quad..  Good luck with it though..  We all like a trier.

[Gwbarm]

I just replaced my oil filter housing on the Big Bear , probably the most difficult oil filter replacement iv done in a while, 3 tiny Allen head screws 2 are easy to get to with  a Allen socket on an extension the other one is too close to the frame to get that to it, maybe if you had 1/4 inch Allen sockets, I didn't, so you have to use long Allen wrench and then you can't turn it because the  end of the wrench hits the foot rest, poor design. My Suzukis have me spoiled a lot easier to work on , filter just spins on like a car.

[p5200]

15 hours ago, QuadMan49 said:

1 Hour of chipping away, and my first gimps of the circuit board. it would be ten times faster without all those mixed in white plastic bits.  

Looks like a lot of work for sure! If you've got a hot air pencil and some of the small paste it sure helps a lot. I used to do some, smd devices with a fine point soldering station but, that was years ago. LOL!

[QuadMan49]

I'll try repairing the CDI. If that does not work, looks like my only option is to buy a overpriced new one.

[p5200]

Don't know about Yahama but, the Hondas usually have a diode/diodes that short or a scr from what I've found online. Came in handy testing my cdi. Good luck 

[Gwbarm]

If you got one of the cheap ones, there was one that had the same plugs, could possibly have the correct board and components that you need, because it was for a 2000 yamaha, and maybe adapt it for the big bear, since you are possibly going to have buy components and a board anyway. Just a thought.

 

https://www.amazon.com/California-1998-2001-Hampshire-1997-2001-Road-Passion/dp/B07L834QQC/ref=pd_ci_mcx_mh_mcx_views_0?pd_rd_w=YYbZq&content-id=amzn1.sym.1bcf206d-941a-4dd9-9560-bdaa3c824953&pf_rd_p=1bcf206d-941a-4dd9-9560-bdaa3c824953&pf_rd_r=GCBDZZDCZAQBHAH43TWZ&pd_rd_wg=VduKT&pd_rd_r=b0ddf16f-0f07-4e7d-b608-76c69654a554&pd_rd_i=B07L834QQC

[Mech]

It would probably be possible to adapt the wiring for a universal aftermarket unit, or a yamaha unit that fits some other model.

If that anti-kickback winding puts out a decent ac you could get a simple one that does a four stroke pit bike or chinese bike. Else, there will be a DC cdi off something else that is cheap and would work with that trigger coil.

All the yamaha bikes seem to input a starter signal though which will almost certainly be to retard the timing to take the load off the starter. If you use an aftermarket it won't have that feature, and if it's for some small bike the timing advance will likely not suit so well.. If you used a yamaha unit off another model it would have the starting retard in it.

[Gwbarm]

You could pull up the wiring diagram for the bike that it fits and see which wires goes where and compare it to the wiring of the Big Bear and make changes to accommodate, the only thing you won't know is if the components are the same. I haven't seen a schematic on any of the CDI units.

[Mech]

Yeah.. I'm not even sure whether they work off AC or DC. Lots of them have the four wires coming off the stator and going to the cdi.  Some have the stator windings and 12volts going in, even though they use an extra 12 v feed in when the starter is going. The ignition controlled 12v in could be to charge the capacitor, or just be for running the neutral/brake switch detection aspects.

Either way it should be fairly easy to adapt some other unit, at the risk of straining the electric start I think... And not having the neutral isolation or brake lever over ride on the start circuit.. but that could be arranged.

[Gwbarm]

This unit I sent a link to has the six wires coming into one side and eight wires going in the other side just like the big bear, just don't know what they go to, but your right it may be an AC CDI. The older BigBears were AC.

[Mech]

Yeah, and even though they now call that winding an anti-kickback, it might still be a winding on the stator much the same as the rest of the charging coils..  I suppose if I  looked up the stator it will show the trigger coils hanging off the side, and all the rest as the main windings.

I'll have a look.

Yes it does.  One winding on the stator that's bigger than the rest.. I bet it puts out enough power to charge the capacitor..

https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/50038985f870021f60a0a1e3/generator

[Gwbarm]

Yes from what I understand the big one by itself is the pulse generator and the other are for charging running lights and such.

[Mech]

I looked up some older models and it seem that's standard yamaha for a long time.. Including the ones they state are AC.. They all have the 12v from the key though, and some system for detecting the starter's being used.. Most other pre-EFI makes and models don't use that.. I can guess why they do it, but I can't figure why nobody else seems to think they need it, or why yamaha think they do..

If there are any yamaha trained mechanics out there that know the reasoning behind that I'd love to hear it.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Mech

[Fullsizechevy9]

Im having trouble finding a wiring harness for 07 4x4 big bear would an older harness work if i use the right cdi with it? Mine has the 3 plug cdi was hoping i could use a 2plug harness with a 2 plug cdi

[Gwbarm]

How is the CDI repair working out. Very interested to see what you find in there.

[EugenM]

Probably will help this 

[Gwbarm]

Great video I have watched it several times, but the CDI he is wiring in was an AC CDI the 2000 400 uses a DC CDI , maybe the 350 used AC, not sure, there may be some way to convert it to DC through a rectifier,  a good idea, but I wasn't sure it would work with the 400, but he did say it would work with the 400.

[Mech]

I think they are all AC Gw and guys. The AC windings, which is the big coil on the stator, charges the capacitor on them, the trigger coil fires it off, but they get turned on and off with the power from the key, and the 12v probably gets used in the advance control. The feed from the starter either retards the timing , or it might kill the first spark, for easy electric cranking.

Some have two separate trigger coils, which, I have read, switches from one coil to the other for advance, but I suspect the second one is used to give a rev count for a calculation of timing advance inside the cdi. Whether one or two trigger coils, they all calculate the timing in the cdi unit, unlike the old trigger with a magnet going past which sufficed to give an automatic advance with rising revs in older systems.

In the old systems we could wire in a twenty dollar cdi unit and once we'd figured which way to connect the charge AC so the capacitor charged fully, we just had to connect the trigger the right way to fire it off. The advance was provided by the magnets approaching the trigger coil at higher and higher speeds. If we wire a cheap cdi into a modern system with new trigger coil designs we don't get the automatic timing advance, and so run the risk of having the engine retarded and over heating badly.  

The cdi really has to have the tune built into it for the bike it's going on these days.

[Gwbarm]

I thought the same thing and was contemplating doing this to my Bear until I read this:

"A direct current-capacitor discharge ignition (DC-CDI) system brings this 400-cc utility ATV to life. Alternatively, a mechanical recoil also starts the Big Bear’s machine and may serve as backup. The AC magneto generator brings power to the quad’s electrical components, such as the headlights and other accessories".

and even after I read it I didn't really understand, if it was generating AC when is it converted to DC before the CDI , not really anything between stator and CDI , but the rectifier is very close to the CDI, maybe im thinking outside of the box.

It turned out that wasn't my problem, but, I had already decided, I didn't want to do that, it probably wouldn't work as good as factory, so I thought,  just spend the money, get the new one, in a years time you won't even know the difference, and your ATV will still be purring      Hopefully !

[Mech]

Ha.. Cloud the water ya bugga...

They seem to think they need the 12v power and that it would stop it going without it, but then they describe the two windings that go to the cdi as "chargng/rotor direction coil", and,  "pickup coil"..  It's saying the big winding is for capacitor charging..  All the small coils are going to the rectifier/regulator and are for battery charging.

Here's what it says in the trouble shooting section..

Procedure
Check:
1.Fuse (main and ignition)
2.Battery
3.Spark plug
4.Ignition spark gap
5.Spark plug cap resistance
6.Ignition coil resistance
7.Engine stop switch
8.Main switch
9.Pickup coil resistance
10.Charging/rotor rotation direction detec-
tion coil resistance
11.Wiring connection
(Entire ignition system)

[QuadMan49]

In my case, the CDI clearly got fried. Still looking for a replacement, any info on where to find a slightly cheaper one?

[Mech]

The cdi units come in a lot of variations Quadman, you really need to identify your one absolutely. If you check how many wires the cdi has going to it that narrows it down. You need to look at the wiring, not the cdi. Count the wires going to the cdi, and tell us the colours and we can try to identify what wiring your bike has, then check you have the correct cdi for that bike.

Modern cdi units have the tune for the bike designed into them. If you buy an after market one it is likely to run, but not be tuned correctly, which can badly effect the engine.  If you have to buy a new cdi, I'd recommend a genuine yamaha one.. 

[Gwbarm]

Quadman I did a lot of research when I was looking to buy one, couldn't even find an aftermarket to fit the Big Bear and the ones claiming to fit the Kodiak some rating were good and some were bad. Then I looked at the used market and did not want to go that route, 300 for a used one was not going to happen, so my conclusion was all that was left was buy a new one, there are several online yamaha dealers that are cheaper than your local yamaha shop. Its really ashamed the parts are so high to the point of so many machines being junked, 400 for CDI 650 for Carb, 400 for stator, 600 for rotor .

[QuadMan49]

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I was here last. I finally found the correct used CDI on eBay for $315. After plugging it in, the 4-wheeler runs good again. Success! The only thing I don't understand is why the original CDI got burnt by connecting the battery terminal back 3 times while it was on. You would think it would blow a fuse first!

[Gwbarm]

I have been wondering how you were coming along with your project, glad you got it fixed. Might check to make sure it is fused correctly, it should not have burned up from unhooking and hooking up the battery. It looks really good! Hadn't seen a red one in a long time. I like it.

[p5200]

That's a fine looking ride!