2004 Arctic Cat 400 4x4 Auto - Won't Start

[greenhornet]

Hi all

Hoping someone's expertise here might help.

I just bought this bike last week from a friend who never used it ( only has 900miles on it). I ran it around the yard for a half an hour or so and it seemed to run fine but was a little hard to start on occasion. Well I took it deep into the bush yesterday and worked it pretty hard, and it seemed to run okay until I realized it started getting boggy at high end and getting hot and I couldn't here the fan coming on at all. I shut it down and checked my fan, fuses and cables and it all looked good but the fan still would not come on and the bike was clearly hot but I don't think over-heating yet but close.

So I stole the wires from the headlight and wired it up to my fan so I could at least get it cooling down. After I ran the fan for a bit I decided to try starting the bike, which it did but only after a lot of cranking and throttle feathering. Once started it did stay running so we drove out. When I made it back to the road I noticed that the bike did not want to run at high speed and lacked top-end power and wanted to backfire at high RPM but did seem fine at low speeds. Once I got the bike home I changed the plug that was pretty black, but it was still hard to start and didn't want to hit high speeds.

Now once the bike has cooled-off, it won't start. It does try but just won't do it.

I am heading back to the garage right now to check the valve clearance and likely clean the carb, but I was wondering if anybody had any ideas?

Thanks and sorry for the long post

[oxidized_black]

if the bike has sat for any length of time, i'm sure your carb is gummed up and needs to be cleaned. i'm assuming this is an arctic cat since it's in the arctic cat forum? i'm sure with a good cleaning you will be back on the trails in no time ... and welcome to quad crazy !!

keep us posted

[greenhornet]

Yes it is a Cat. I cleaned the carb this afternoon, which wasn't really dirty, and checked the valve clearance (which was good) and its still really hard-almost impossible to get it started. Once I did get it to start it will run but when I shut it off she doesn't want to start again. I think I might have cooked it when it got hot and likely my compression is low. My compression tester is the wrong thread so I have to get another tomorrow.

Anybody have any other ideas?

I was also wondering if anybody knows if the manual for the 2005 should be the same for my 2004.

Thanks

[swampcat07]

Check here for the service manual: http://www.quadcrazy.com/atvforum/arctic-cat-atv-forum/8558-need-service-manual-here-they.html

Does the quad have a pull start and does that work?

I would also check and make sure none of the shielding on the wiring has melted or warn thru.

[oxidized_black]

well, that didn't work out....

go here www.yousendit.com

user [email protected]

pass romy1961

top middle page is folder icon, click it and you're in...

look for 'Arctic Cat 2005 Line Service Manual'

Edited March 25, 2012 by oxidized_black

[greenhornet]

Yes it does have a pull start and I pulled till I was blue in the face and no go. I checked all the fuses and looked over the wiring harness as well and I don't see any issues.

[greenhornet]

i will have to do this in a couple posts, but here's the '05 line up...

I did download all the sections from the mymowerparts website for the 2005 Cats and the manual does seem to be right but I didn't see one for my 2004. I just assumed it was the same

[oxidized_black]

sorry about that, it all wouldn't load up here... i put the link in the original message...

[swampcat07]

Does the motor turn over when the starter is pushed.

Here are some quick checks on the later models but the same theory should apply.

Make sure the kill switch is in the right position to run. (Silly but sometimes this is the problem)

Check that the brake light is on and depress the brake lever before starting in netural. (Start in gear switch)

Change the gas and make sure it is getting to the carb.

Change the plug. Check for spark (Old plugs can spark outside of the case but under pressure fail)

I have some other ideas but hopefully some of these work. The other ideas are model specific so I have to do some homework. Let me know how these work for you first.

[greenhornet]

Does the motor turn over when the starter is pushed.

Here are some quick checks on the later models but the same theory should apply.

Make sure the kill switch is in the right position to run. (Silly but sometimes this is the problem)

Check that the brake light is on and depress the brake lever before starting in netural. (Start in gear switch)

Change the gas and make sure it is getting to the carb.

Change the plug. Check for spark (Old plugs can spark outside of the case but under pressure fail)

I have some other ideas but hopefully some of these work. The other ideas are model specific so I have to do some homework. Let me know how these work for you first.

Yes the motor does turn over and I do have spark and it is a new plug The carb is getting gas and even if I manually feed gas through the carb while cranking it she still doesn't want to go. Like I said it does try to go and it will occasionally start if I just catch it right

I did notice that it has to roll over for 7-10 seconds before I get spark on the plug. I cleaned the connectors on the coil and cliped the ends of the plug wire and reseated it and the problem persists. Compression is also okay.

Think I might have a bad coil

Edited March 25, 2012 by greenhornet

[greenhornet]

So I pulled the plug and noticed something very strange. When I crank the engine and watch the spark, the plug will have great spark for exactly 10 seconds, then the spark stops for 10 seconds and then it comes back for 10 seconds and the cycle continues. If I stop cranking halfway through either one of the 10 second periods

(spark/no spark) and wait any amount of time, once I start cranking again, the spark/no spark cycle continues exactly where it left-off. This leads me to believe that it is in relation to the number of engine rotation cycles rather than time .

Does anyone have any ideas for me?

Thanks

[oxidized_black]

i would test meter all the electrical components and you should be able to find whats breaking down...

[marioweldinginc]

if they all test out ok, hit them with a blowdryer for a few minutes to heat them up and retest

[greenhornet]

It's just really weird how consistant the spark failure is. I can't see it being a wire or connection and you would think if it was a pickup, wire or the coil it would not be so consistant. I hate to think that it might be the CDI.

[oxidized_black]

it would be nice to think it might be just the pick up coil, its probably the least expensive, but you wont know for sure until you get some readings. could very well be something in the cdi box opening and closing for some reason too.

swampcat07 might be able to give you some more hands on experiences since he is so good with them

before, when my big bear was down, it had weak spark and very inconsistant, sometimes spark, sometimes not, but wouldn't run, and it turned out to be the stator ... ???

Edited March 27, 2012 by oxidized_black

[greenhornet]

I have read that the magnets on the flywhel can be an issue. Does anyone know how to test for that without tearing the side off the motor?

[oxidized_black]

I have read that the magnets on the flywhel can be an issue. Does anyone know how to test for that without tearing the side off the motor?

swampcat07 where are you?

this is where you shine

[swampcat07]

I have read that the magnets on the flywhel can be an issue. Does anyone know how to test for that without tearing the side off the motor?

That is what I was first thinking. I am not sure if there is an easy way to go about it, they covered it under warranty for me. The glue has been known to let go. I had the same problem on my 2007.

However, first I would take Ox's advice and check everything else. The specs are in the repair manual for the coil, stator etc. I don't think it would be the ECU for any reason unless there is a bad wire leading to or coming from the ECU. If it were the magnets it seems werid that it would be the same for 10 sec (a few rotations) and the change completely for another 10 sec (a few more rotations). Also make sure your battery is charged 100% and you are doing the test with a new plug.

[greenhornet]

Well I pulled the cover today and every magnet was loose and they are all now pushed together with no gap at all. Thank god they didn't come out and destroy my stator.

Just ordered a new updated flywheel with the embedded magnets. Funny but if you order the part for a Suzuki Eiger it is much cheaper. My local dealer wanted $540 but I found an online vendor that had the Suzuki part for $230. Little nervous that the AC part number and the Suzuki one are drastically different but I've been told by two diferent dealers that they are the same part - time will tell

Heres a pic:

Edited March 30, 2012 by greenhornet

[swampcat07]

Glad to see you found the problem. It sucks the fix was so expensive though.

[greenhornet]

Could have been a lot worse if it wiped out the stator but its never fun spending money on repairs

I was wondering if you think the Suzuki flywheel will work?

[greenhornet]

I was also wondering if any one knows what this might be?

It looks like it should be clipped onto something but I can't figure out where

Thanks

[oxidized_black]

Could have been a lot worse if it wiped out the stator but its never fun spending money on repairs

I was wondering if you think the Suzuki flywheel will work?

i think you should be ok with the suzuki parts as far as i know because suzuki built all the engines except the 650, kawasaki had that one. but please swampcat07, correct me if i'm wrong !!