Starting problem 2004 Suzuki Twin Peaks

[Jeff Miller]

 

 

Okay-got inside.

Obviously you can see the broken teeth on the starter clutch gear. It seems that double gear linking the starter gear to the clutch gear is called the torque limiter in the manual. I can rotate everything by hand from that gear only in one direction-makes me think the clutch is doing it's job. 

The torque limiter gears float, I don't know if they should? I can move them in and out, I tried to capture that amount in the 2 photos that look the same and video.

My next problem is removing that assembly as I don't have a flywheel holder tool.

I don't know if the broken teeth/floating gears are the problem or damage from it?

thanks-where are you located btw-I'm in NY

[Frank Angerano]

That to me seems like the engine kicked back almost like a backfire.   The engine cover should stop the floating of gears when its installed so i don't think that's a problem.  
I am going to say at this point your going to have to definitely check your timing to see thats all in order. 
Im in the city. You?
 

[Jeff Miller]

I'm up in Orange Country, right by Stewart Airport.

I will check the timing. It didn't have any running issues if that matters.

Would that possibly point to the decompression rig then too? Seems like whatever is going on must be pretty violent to do that. It did have that starter lock periodically over the last year or so.

Any idea if a flywheel puller is something I could get via Autozone or would it be very specific? 

[Frank Angerano]

Post a pic of the side view of the engine so i can see the flywheel. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Frank Angerano

[Jeff Miller]

I've cleaned up, but maybe this will illustrate better-I can take pics tomorrow otherwise.

rotor .pdf

[Frank Angerano]

I ordered mine from Amazon. Took two days to show up.  

[Jeff Miller]

Here's a side profile

[Frank Angerano]

Based on that photo i feel you can get a regular three claw puller on that flywheel.   Auto parts place will have that.   Just be careful that you don't damage the end of the shaft with the puller. 

[Jeff Miller]

I think you're right, I was talking to a local friend earlier about it. I'm going to see if I can get that off and then assess where I'm at.

[Frank Angerano]

Good idea.  You can use a pipe cap to cover the shaft.   Either a half inch or three quarter black pipe end cap.  Sit it over the shaft and put the puller on.  
Keep me posted.   Im curious to see whats going on.   

Edited April 15, 2020 by Frank Angerano

[MarkinAR]

Reading along here...it's not completely unusual for a starter on an small block chevy to quit working due to oil gumming up the brushes.  You can pull the starter off and it spins, but not under load.  If it were me, i'd wash the starter good in gas and spin it quite a bit by hand.  Hit it with compressed air and let it dry then reinstall and try again.  I'd almost bet there is debris or corrosion keeping the brushes from contacting enough to pass a high enough voltage to turn the motor over.

[Frank Angerano]

On a chevy small block (One of my favorites) btw... The starters usually get stuck when the shaft gets eventually gets coated in a heavy grease and sediment buildup. The starter wont engage the starter gear  to the flywheel Thats why tapping it with a mallet usually works to free it up. Especially in the colder months.  I love, love, love my small block engines.  Built thousands!! Fast ones. 
Anyway if you see the gear that is broken is why the flywheel is getting pulled. Something kicked back and sheared a few teeth off.  So now a fix and then a reason as to why it blasted a few teeth off. I was thinking some sort of kick back/backfire? Maybe a compression issue with the automatic decompression device ? 
Whats your thoughts on this  @MarkinAR?

[MarkinAR]

@Frank Angerano If its anything like my boys 300FW the one way clutch is going out so the starter spins a couple extra rotations. If it dies he hits the starter again before it's done whizzing...that's a sure fire way to knock teeth off a starter. 

[Frank Angerano]

Definitely a good way to look at it and very possible.  Unfortunately a few things are going to have to come apart to verify that.   

[Jeff Miller]

Still don't have the tool to pull it all yet. I am aware of not hitting the starter until things have stopped moving-It's certainly possible I did once or twice, especially if the clutch was failing. This thing has led a pretty easy life for a quad in general-not that I couldn't have accidentally hurt it  I'll take a look at the clutch and of course replace anything that looks suspect there as well as check the decompression rig. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Jeff Miller

[Jeff Miller]

quasi update-

pulled it apart-the only thing visibly damaged is the starter gear teeth in the previous pictures. The one way clutch seems to work spinning by hand-goes one way, is locked the other. I've been having a heck of a time getting parts, everything backordered. I was waiting on two different places that fell through. Just found one on ebay-new today. More waiting....

[MarkinAR]

I just fixed one that the one way clutch bearing was fine by hand but slipped with the kick start. If you have to replace it go OEM even though they're high. I've seen cheap ones shred the primary clutch nose. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by MarkinAR

[spock58]

I've never seen a Suzuki model like that around here but it sure looks like the Kawasaki Brute Force 750 I'm dealing with. Has the exact same failure - broken starter gear.

According to the info I found in a Kawie forum, these gears were known to break and were eventually beefed up by the factory. Replacement parts from 2012 and up were what was recommended.

Still waiting for the new parts to arrive, sounds like that's a common issue everywhere eh?!

[Jeff Miller]

On 6/11/2020 at 8:08 PM, MarkinAR said:

I just fixed one that the one way clutch bearing was fine by hand but slipped with the kick start. If you have to replace it go OEM even though they're high. I've seen cheap ones shred the primary clutch nose. 

How would I know that the original is no good? I don't want to miss anything while it's apart, but I also don't want to waste money.

On 6/13/2020 at 11:47 AM, spock58 said:

I've never seen a Suzuki model like that around here but it sure looks like the Kawasaki Brute Force 750 I'm dealing with. Has the exact same failure - broken starter gear.

According to the info I found in a Kawie forum, these gears were known to break and were eventually beefed up by the factory. Replacement parts from 2012 and up were what was recommended.

Still waiting for the new parts to arrive, sounds like that's a common issue everywhere eh?!

You're right on it being a mirror of the Kawi. I just got the gear, new, via ebay. I'd feel better knowing that it was a common failure vs something else going on that I can't figure out. Is there a way to know if I got the updated version, or is it safe to assume since it's new? Thanks

[spock58]

The newer style gear will have thicker, stronger teeth compared to the original. It will be obvious when you compare them.

[Jeff Miller]

They look slightly different, not as much as I expected, but the tops seem to be slightly larger and have a little different shape. 

[Jeff Miller]

Finally got it back together, took a while to get all the parts. Thanks for the help and advice, running/starting great now, hopefully will stay that way.