Repair Questions & Advice

[alexwv1863]

I recently acquired a 2004 Yamaha Kodiak 400 ATV. The engine cover where the drive belt and stuff are located was off. Inside the outer cover (it was off the ATV) was what looked like part mouse nest and something else. The side of the engine was corroded and covered in pitting. The primary fixed sheeve, and the secondary sheeve assembly also had pitting and corrosion. The belt appeared to be what I can only describe as dry and a little hard. It still had a lot of flex in it, but the rubber was old looking. I don't have the money to spend on another motor, or buy a bunch of new parts. So, my question is, is there something I can put over thr pitted areas that will seal it and help prolong the life? What products can I use that would be safe and not flake off? I had thought of jb weld but im not sure if that's a wise idea or not. Also, is there anything I can put on the belt that would soften up the rubber and make it more pliable? Im sure I'll have more questions about this particular 4 wheeler before it's all said and done. Thanks for your time. 

[Beerwiser]

How bad are the pits?  I have run sandpaper over primary and secondary's on sleds to get it relatively smooth.  I think I was at 1000 grit when done.  As far as coatings, I don't know of any that would work well, but JB weld would work if you have deep pits.  Belt, buy a new one after you run the old one a bit to get the clutches shined up.  Broken belts in the bush suck.

[alexwv1863]

The pits on the primary and secondary are pretty rough. The one thre belt runs between has some rough pits that im afraid might cut the belt. If I can, I will take some photos tomorrow and post them. Im trying to save the motor case on that side because I just don't have that kind of money to put into it right now. 

[Beerwiser]

Yeah, photos are always best.  I completely get the money part, I am cheap as cheap can be lol.

[alexwv1863]

Here's some photos of my predicament. Lol My philosophy is:  why buy stuff when you can fix it with stuff you already have. The photos give you a good idea at what im working with. The rusted piece to the right "clutch bracket" is really fragile im the bottom. Im not sure if I can get away with using it or not. The oil line needs replaced. I cleaned a rusted place that was holding the oil in. Lol. Im all ears for any advice or whatever. 

[Beerwiser]

Wow, I have never seen anything that bad before.  You need a bit more than sandpaper unfortunately.  I would actually be worried about the integrity of them particularly the secondary.  Personally I would replace that secondary, that missing chunk on the 3rd last picture is in a bad spot. You might be able to salvage the primary with jb weld, but then you get into balance issues and how long it will actually last. Build it back up with a TIG would what I would on the big area on the primary in the second last picture.  Build up the main area, grind off any high spots and jb weld the smaller low spots.  Still have to be careful on the balance.  It will take some time to build it up with TIG, but it will last.  How did it get that bad?  Salt water or something?

[alexwv1863]

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. It's going to take me quite a while to repair. I really don't know how it happened. I just got three 4 wheeler last week. The side cover was off like somebody was going to work on it. The side cover was filled with what im guessing was mouse bedding, stunk like something had died in it. The side of the motor that has all the pitting had a bunch of powdery buildup, like you get on a battery post, but I know it wasn't acid or anything. Im purely guessing but I think either it got water inside the case and sat long enough to eat away at the aluminium, or they took the side cover off to fix something then just left it for some reason. I really don't know. It was just too good of a deal to pass up. I found both left and right sides on Ebay for a little over $200, but that's more than I have to spend right now. I had wondered if body filler would be strong enough to repair the pitting inside the case? I also thought about spreading a light coat of jb weld if the bondo wouldn't work. Im not im a hurry to fix it per say but I would like to take it for a ride sooner than later. I would really love to know the story as to how it got in this condition. 

[Beerwiser]

Bondo won't work at all, the vibrations alone will cause it to break off.  Then you got temperature changes to deal with too.  With the inside of the case, I wouldn't get to carried away there unless you need to repair critical areas.  Looks like a bit around the bottom and to the right of the oil pipe could use some attention and right below that on the lip of the case is all I would worry about.  Have you had it running yet should have been my first question.  I would fire it up with the clutches off to see if there is even a reason to move ahead since it almost looks like it was sitting in water up to the crank.  

[alexwv1863]

What you said about the bondo makes sense. Yea there's a few places under where the oil line is that definitely needs work. There's one spot next to the lip that's pretty thin that concerned me. No, I haven't tried to crank it. That would be a good idea. I just didn't know if it would hurt to try to crank it the way it sat. We had a really devastating flood here back in 2016 that did massive damage. It could have been in it as far as I know. I'll hook it up to a battery tomorrow and let you know what happens. I really hope it cranks. That would be nice. 

[davefrombc]

Pull the spark plug and squirt a bit of oil into the cylinder before you try to spin it over.. If there is any water in it it  could jam on  it and do  some damage and  if  dry the oil will  help the rings  break  loose from the cylinder walls.  That  clutch assembly is toast as far as I'm  concerned and with that much corrosion there it make me wonder about the rest of the motor .

 

[Beerwiser]

As Dave said, pull the plug and oil the top end, but spin it by hand first.  I would almost drop the oil too and fill the crank case full of diesel (right to the top of the fill plug) and turn it by hand for a bit.  Done that with a few pieces heavy equipment that had "mishaps"

[alexwv1863]

Good idea because the spark plug was out BUT it couldn't have been out long before I got it because I barely cleaned it and it looks brand new. There is oil in the motor. Checked it and it's reading full. There doesn't appear to be water in it. It looks good when I wipe it off the stick, so that's a bonus. I haven't taken the carb or starter off and cleaned them yet. I had been working on a different 4 wheeler trying to get it road ready before I dive head on in this one. Plus, I was waiting to see what you guys recommended. I knew y'all would think of something I hadn't, and probably have more experience working on 4 wheelers than me. My yard looks like a dang ATV shop. Lol. I have one that's my dad's that I worked on last summer that's just left me puzzled. I have so many questions, but I don't want to keep going on about these different 4 wheelers. But, let me know if you want to try to help me solve some issues. I refuse to spend all summer working on his again. Lol

[davefrombc]

There's a few on here glad to help out others and new comers to the forum as much as we can.  I  have minimal knowledge on ATV's as such. My experience is mainly on older cars , before all the electronics and  fuel injection  came into the picture.  I  have   a basic knowledge of electronics , but it's very basic , and I  can  often help in the search for service manuals. 

At 78, I  have  a little more "free time"  to  search  than  others whose week  doesn't consist of 7  Saturdays,  but I sure miss those Payday Fridays. Pension hours are great , but  the pay needs improvement.

 

[alexwv1863]

I'm in the need for a repair manual for a 2006 Arctic Cat 400 TRV and a 2004 Yamaha Kodiak 400 4x4. Those are the ones I really need right at this moment.  The weather turned nasty here yet again, so I'm having to wait to get back out to work on them.  I worked all last summer on the Arctic Cat 400 and cannot get spark back.  I was told to replace the clutch sensor, but I haven't the slightest clue as to where it's located.  I could really use and help or advice.  I told myself I will not be committing my entire summer to just that 4- wheeler this year.

[davefrombc]

 

[davefrombc]

https://support.countrycat.com/search?query=Service+manual+for+2006+400

[Beerwiser]

You can check here for some various manuals Alex, seems you are a lot like me in regards to brands/years lol.  

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GcqS65GYd3yFmEAGsI7LP-eZp2jMRVJU

[alexwv1863]

Update: First, I just now noticed that in my first post I stated the 4-wheeler was a 400.  It's actually a 450.  I don't know why I said 400.  It must've been all the manual searches I had been doing.  Ok, now, I finally got a little bit of time today to fool with the 4-wheeler.  I hooked up a fully charged battery, and I have zero power.  I double-checked the cables going to the CDI box, battery connections, solenoid.  I intended to take the handlebar switch off and clean the terminals. but I got distracted and the evening got away from me.  Could it be the CDI box or something else?  I don't know much about using multimeters, so if someone could tell me how I could check the CDI box or anything you all would recommend on checking, please let me know.  I haven't got to do much to the 4-wheeler as you all know, so any and all help is greatly appreciated.  I went ahead and looked on Ebay for a CDI box and I mainly found aftermarket ones.  I can't afford other ones selling for $140+, so would the aftermarket ones be okay to try if it's something I need to buy?  Thanks so much.

[davefrombc]

This manual  was for the 2002 YFM450far but the electrical on your quad  should be nearly the same ,  if not identical. There  are also manuals in the Quadcrazy  downloads section.

Do  you have a local ATV club or association? Very possibly if you do you may find a member there that would be willing to  help you trace out the problem  with your  rig. You may find a tutorial  on  Youtube  that  would help  you learn  how you  use your multimeter to  check  out the electrical  system on your quad.

2002 Yamaha yfm450far_2.pdf

[Beerwiser]

Don't bother looking at the CDI yet.  That is for spark and if you got no power at the dash so you have to start there.  The wife has an 06 so if you need some pictures or whatever I can get them for you.  Check all the fuses under the seat and make sure they have continuity.  Gear indicator lights and dash should light as soon as the key is turned on, no matter what position the kill switch is in.  Also remove the ground cable on the engine case and clean it, it is just below where your gear select rod attaches to the engine(back left).  

[alexwv1863]

I have seen some manuals on the downloads section. I just didn't know which ones I could use and which ones I couldn't. I haven't quite figured out how to know which year's are the same with motor and electrical wiring. I would love to know if someone would share how I could learn this. Lol. Right now, it would really help me out because I have several different ATV's I am or need to be working on. Thank you for letting me know about this manual. I'll definitely give it a look over. As far as I know, there aren't any clubs in my area. I'll give YouTube a go and see what I can find. I usually start my research there, but really wanted to run it by you all and get some opinions. 

[davefrombc]

Some of the manuals will have it stated in the  .pdf's what  years and models they  cover. I  can't help  beyond  that.  The best I  can suggest is look for  one that covers the one you  want whether  it states for that year or not . If for a newer model than  you have look to  see if it  states the older ones are covered also in the manual  when you open it.. Most models with the same engine size will have very similar electrical  components although their wiring colour code  may be different and component location may  be different .. The  only cases where there would be huge differences  would be is where the older  model  was carburetted  and the newer one fuel  injected with it's associated electronics  the older model  wouldn't have.

[Curtis Underwood]

After looking at the pics and reading the discussion there is a way to save these clutch assemblies. That is by welding or brassing the real bad areas and grinding/sanding them back down to smooth(any roughness or pits will wear a belt out fast). This could save you money.  As to the case it is about 1/4 " thick at it's thinnest area. I would clean it real good and use JB weld in the areas that have deep pits to help prevent any futher damage. As to the belt that there is no picture I can only say that if it is just weathered then you could try some Renue, Rejuvenate and Restore Rubber Belt chemicals (I have never used any but have heard of others using it with varing results) other then that there is nothing much you can do but replace it.
I have worked on these machines and had them torn all way down to repair transmission, so as long as there is no oil leaking from the case your good. But it does not need to corrode any further. 

[alexwv1863]

Thank you so much. I had been wondering if welding would add too much weight to the pieces and throw it off balance like someone else had mentioned it might do. Would flux core welding be ok to do? That's what kind of welder I have. Before I tackle that side, I need to see if I can get it to start. Right now it won't turn on, but I haven't had the time to really check it over and see if there is possibly a loose or disconnected wire. I've been trying to find repair manuals for it and a couple other ATV's I have and am working on. It seems like the service manuals aren't as detailed or has everything in them like the repair manuals do. I've been trying to find free downloads because I just don't have the money to buy them. If you have any other suggestions, my ears are open. Thanks again. 

[Curtis Underwood]

If you build weld up and grind it back down to the same size it was it should be pretty close but if you have vibration from them you can balance them it by spining them up on a lathe. This is what i would do. I would weld them up and grind then sand them smooth to original shape and size. Then I would take them to a machine shop friend and we would spin them up and if it the vibrated we would use tap die ink on a stick ands just barely touch them as it is spinning. Where the ink shows is the heavy side so take a little off at a time until balence is achieved.

[Curtis Underwood]

One thing if you have a machine shop buddy or one that would not charge you much they can build them up and balance then for might be cheaper then buying some.?

 

[alexwv1863]

That's a good idea. I'll look around for someone while I'm working on other stuff like the wiring. I took a few minutes a little bit ago and took the front cover off to look at the wiring under the handlebars. I figured I'd have some naked or chewed wires. I wasn't quite expecting what I found but I'm honestly not surprised since I've already seen mice evidence. Those suckers went to town on the wires. I have quite the job ahead of me tomorrow (weather permitting). I'm going to enclose some photos. I also took photos of the belt to show what it's like. The one photo of my squeezing it is to show its pliability. Hopefully it'll give you a little idea. Also, what can I clean the belt with that wouldn't hurt it?  I truly appreciate all of y'all's help. 

[Curtis Underwood]

 The belt is bad period. Look at third pic down about a 1/4th way from top and you will see gray area on the right side of the belt this I think is a narrower width than the rest of the belt. The width for the belt should be the same all the way around the belt if it isn't it will cause a large vibration. This indicates the engines was running at some point with the driven side not turning and wearing the belt down at that point.
 The picture of the wiring is about usual for an older bike or one that has been setting up a while. For the wiring I would first pressure wash the bike including the wiring but disconnect battery first. Then inspect the wiring for chewed or broke wires. Unplug each connector and insure they are clean and have the electrical lubrication still in them. If they do no need of anything else. If they are corroded or dirty then use electricaal cleaner to clean and get a tube of electrical lube to use in the connector. Then if you have problems with electrical get the service manual for the bike they will have electrical prints in them.

[davefrombc]

2 hours ago, alexwv1863 said:

Thank you so much. I had been wondering if welding would add too much weight to the pieces and throw it off balance like someone else had mentioned it might do. Would flux core welding be ok to do? That's what kind of welder I have. Before I tackle that side, I need to see if I can get it to start. Right now it won't turn on, but I haven't had the time to really check it over and see if there is possibly a loose or disconnected wire. I've been trying to find repair manuals for it and a couple other ATV's I have and am working on. It seems like the service manuals aren't as detailed or has everything in them like the repair manuals do. I've been trying to find free downloads because I just don't have the money to buy them. If you have any other suggestions, my ears are open. Thanks again. 

There is no  flux core wire for MIG welding aluminum.  MIG welding aluminum is with shielding gas only.  TIG welding or  brazing with flux coated rods could build up the parts, but an expensive waste of time and effort. If you've never welded aluminum  before I  can pretty much guarantee instead of having built up  parts  you can  try to  sand smooth and balanced,  you will end up with melted mess instead of clutch parts . Aluminum  doesn't grind well.  It  plugs up  grind stones and disks. Aluminum  melts before it changes colour.  Apply too  much  heat to an area  too long and it goes from solid to  melted with no warning. Welding aluminum   is a special skill  not  like steel welding which is forgiving  of mistakes .. There is no  forgiveness in aluminum welding .

Work  on getting the motor to  run  first .  If it is ok then  look for   a replacement  clutch assembly..  Trying to fix that one will be an expensive lesson  in frustration.

Edited April 17, 2022 by davefrombc

[Curtis Underwood]

It migtht be as Dave says frustrating but I have done it before on aluminum parts but I did have the tools to do it with. I never said you could weld it without using a welder with argon gas, 3656 aluminum wire and a size bigger wire tip then called for for that wire size( BTW these are oldtimer tips bigger tip allows expansion of wire and 3656 is stiffer then what is recominded for wire welders). As to grinding that all depends on your grinding rocks. You can clean the rocks by grinding metal or using a brush.
But as Dave said get the engine running before you spend time on repairing anything you don't have to, to run the engine. Also make sure the transmission shaft is not binded up in some way, and rear end is not locked up and is not binded up in some way.
The problem is you do not know for sure why it was parked in the first place. It could have been something simple or it could have been something major like the engine smoking, tranmission striped out or rear end bad.
 For an example I had a 2014 Honda 450 brought to me to repair. The customer bought it from someone else that said it only needed carb cleaned. I first drained the fuel that was in it becaused it smelled old and put new fuel in it. Then I tried starting(it had just enough power to energize the electroinc display).  I put one of mine on it, whille I put it on charger which found out it was bad. I starter trying to start the motor and it started up after using starting fluid. Motor ran but was missing some.  Then I tried it in reverse and wow sounded like it was coming apart. Ended up having a broke rear axle, bad worm gear and all the bearings in the rear end bad. So rear end had to be rebuilt since I could not find a good used one. It cost him around 650$ parts and labor, Axle cost 60$, the gears cost 100$, the bearings 4 of them 30$ each, seal gasket kit 75$ and new baatttery 70$. I got it runing good and everything working. He rode it for about two months and brought it back. It had quit shifting using the electric shift so I adjusted clutch first thing and it worked but not as it should. I checked solenoid, shift mechanism and greased them but this did not help. It turns out it was in the synchronizers that was worn. The estimated cost to repair this was around 800$ because engine had to be pulled and disassembled and transmission rebuilt, he decide to use the foot shifter lol.
The reason I told you this is you can get into more then the 4x4 is worth real fast. I have two I got in trades setting here right now that even though I could repair them it would cost more then they are worth. so check it out good before putting any real money in it.