2000 Big Bear pulls to the left

[mga]

Is there any special way to align the front end so that it drives straight?

It's not bad, but it still could use an adjustment. I'm suspecting the tie rod was improperly adjusted to compensate for the bent lower "A" arm which i replaced.

[Gwbarm]

I think the specs for adjusting that are in the manual

[Mech]

Do you mean it keeps veering slowly to the left on a straight flat road ? People have described things as pulling left, but then when we discussed it it turned out that the real problem was it turned left easily but needed to be wrestled to turn right.

If you have the wrong amount of toe-in it will normally just get erratic and keep trying to veer left or right, but not be happy going straight. It is important though that both tie rods are adjusted to the same length. If one rod is longer than the other, even though the overall toe in is right, it can cause pulling.

Are you sure the caster and camber are right ? Some makes have different length/width A arms on different years. If the new arm is a bit different to the original it will upset the camber and/or caster.

Other things that cause dragging to one side are dragging brakes, uneven tyre pressures, bad wheel bearings..  And it could be a problem at the rear.. 

[mga]

40 minutes ago, Mech said:

Do you mean it keeps veering slowly to the left on a straight flat road ? People have described things as pulling left, but then when we discussed it it turned out that the real problem was it turned left easily but needed to be wrestled to turn right.

If you have the wrong amount of toe-in it will normally just get erratic and keep trying to veer left or right, but not be happy going straight. It is important though that both tie rods are adjusted to the same length. If one rod is longer than the other, even though the overall toe in is right, it can cause pulling.

Are you sure the caster and camber are right ? Some makes have different length/width A arms on different years. If the new arm is a bit different to the original it will upset the camber and/or caster.

Other things that cause dragging to one side are dragging brakes, uneven tyre pressures, bad wheel bearings..  And it could be a problem at the rear.. 

gees.....thanks for all that...i think. The A arms were the same, i compared them before installing it. The bearings are new, all ball joints are new. Brakes have been checked...no dragging. I'll start playing with the tie rods. Even in neutral when i manually push it on a flat surface it turns left by itself.

I'll do the tie rods first and see what happens

[Mech]

Check out the back end too, that could cause it. . Also check all four wheels are aligned.

When you push it, do the bars turn themselves to the left ? Or does the bike just go left with the bars still straight ?

It must be something bad if it veers just pushing it. Tyres all worn evenly ?

[Mech]

With the wheels straight ahead, prop/lay a plank down each side touching the back wheels, and check the fronts are both in by the same amount, and that both front wheels have similar toe in or out.

Most four wheel  drive bikes seem to have a bit of toe out, rather than toe in..

 

[Gwbarm]

Good procedure Mech, I will have to try that, I usually eye ball it or go by the specs in the manual, but eyes aren't what they used to be.

[Mech]

Nor are mine Mate..  And my back isn't what it used to be, I'm not as strong as I once was, my stamina for hard work is waning fast. At least I'm still healthy..   haha..  This getting old's a bugger..

[mga]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:47 PM, Mech said:

With the wheels straight ahead, prop/lay a plank down each side touching the back wheels, and check the fronts are both in by the same amount, and that both front wheels have similar toe in or out.

Most four wheel  drive bikes seem to have a bit of toe out, rather than toe in..

 

i'll try that today. i did eye ball it and made some adjusting, but that sounds like the way to go.  it appears to be a lot better, but using the boards seems more accurate.

thanks!

[Mech]

It might pay to measure the distance on each side between the center of the back and front wheels as well (weird sh** happens). If one front wheel is back a little it will try to veer off.

And if you can block the plank up so it's near the center height of the wheels it will be more accurate.

[mga]

here's where i'm at: the front wheel camber is off. This is the side where some damage was to the lower A arm, which i replaced. The wheel is leaning in at the top, where the other wheel is "almost" level veritcally. So, i jacked it up and removed both wheels and took measurements off the frame to each ball joint and several other points. The problem is they are all equal.

So, now i have to figure out what else was bent when they crashed this thing.  The level i pl;ace on the hubs shows I have to somehow move the left wheel out about 3/8" to make it even with the right side. Since everything measured the same, i'm thinking that maybe the welded mounts on the frame might have moved (?) 

I also compared both lower A arms...the bad one and the one i bought. They were both the same. Upper A arms had the same measurements on both sides.

the attached picture shows how bad the original A arm was bent

[Mech]

It's probably the kingpin/hub..  the cast bit between the top and bottom arms..  If the frame was bent you'd probably have spotted that.

[mga]

2 minutes ago, Mech said:

It's probably the kingpin/hub..  the cast bit between the top and bottom arms..  If the frame was bent you'd probably have spotted that.

well.....i think it's mostly "pilot error" on my part. I removed everything again and I re-tightened the ball joints and made sure they were seated, which they were. I removed the wheel and the plate were the lugs are on, and i noticed ( according to parts drawings ) there's a spacer ( washer) missing. It goes between the lug plate and bearing seal. It was never there to begin with! Thats why i had a little play in the wheel and i could rock it top to bottom. Without the wheel on it was very little movement, but, add a 26" wheel and the movement increases a lot. 

To show my wheel issue, the right wheel is "I" and the left wheel was "\" when on the ground.  ( only symbols i could find to show how the wheels sat...lol)

So, i ordered that part and there's a small "O" ring for that too. Hopefully when that spacer solves my mystery . I checked the frame closely and there were no bends and all the mounts for the A arms were good. 

it's this part: collar 90387-281v8-00

[Mech]

Ha..  Good onya.. Perseverance always wins. Yeah you'd have spotted a bend or ripples in the frame if it was bent I'm sure.

And don't feel bad.. mechanics stuff things up all the time.. and a lot of them are too perverse to even backtrack half way through assembly when they realise something doesn't seem right.. They'd just have told you the knuckle was bent when they took it apart for the second time after you complained about it pulling left.  Thieving mongrels.. Admit doing something wrong and you have to pay, sell the customer some more work and it's more parts profit and hours booked out successfully.. It's why I was self employed since I was 21.

And those cast bits, called Knuckles in the book I see, they do bend.. surprisingly. If anyone else is having the trouble, don't discount the knuckle just because it looks so solid..

[mga]

once i correct that issue, i'm going to take your advice on adjusting the "toe-in" with the boards. Sounds easy enuff....(famous last words)

i do appreciate the feed back..brainstorming is the best teacher.

[Mech]

Yeah mate, despite the glib old saying about mistakes being the best teacher, there are better ways. Instruction and hands on experience is the best way to learn in my opinion/experience.

[mga]

I put that missing spacer in today, seemed to help a lot with making the wheel straight vertically, still slightly off, but i'm not going to let my OCD get the better of me on that issue. I can live with it not being perfect.

I did play with the Toe-in, Toe-out and it seems to be like 90% better! When i push it in the garage it goes straight and it handles much better driving it. But, i'll go back to the Toe adjustment when i get the time and see if i can adjust it to the exact specs.

Before when i pushed it, the handle bars would move to the left. Now, it seems OK. For what i intend to use it for it should be OK. I have a steep hill out back and i needed this to get up and down it and carry stuff like saws or other tools. It's about 200 ft long and it's a killer to walk up it. That little 400 has some balls when i give full throttle. 

thanks again for the help!

[Mech]

That's just what I use mine for too..

Though... I do ride up steep hills just because it's fun as well.

[Gwbarm]

 Nothing like riding down to the creek, being alone in the woods listening to the water go by, birds chirping, squirrels barking so peaceful and relaxing.

[Mech]

Sounds good Gw..  I wonder what people in cities enjoy..  haha.  Sure not peace and quiet.

[EugenM]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:04 PM, Mech said:

Nor are mine Mate..  And my back isn't what it used to be, I'm not as strong as I once was, my stamina for hard work is waning fast. At least I'm still healthy..   haha..  This getting old's a bugger..

speaking of old age Mech..a grandfather was talking to his grandson and said to him...do you know when you realize you're old?  ... When you see a pair of beautiful boobs and you are only thinking that you forgot to buy milk for breakfast!🤪

[LARRY01Z28]

man that thing is bent

 

[Mech]

Lol Eugen..  That hasn't happened yet..

 

 

[Gwbarm]

8 hours ago, LARRY01Z28 said:

man that thing is bent

 

The Joke or the A arm.

[Mech]

Lol.

[mga]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:07 PM, Mech said:

It's probably the kingpin/hub..  the cast bit between the top and bottom arms..  If the frame was bent you'd probably have spotted that.

judging from the impact on that lower A arm, do you think the hub might be bent as well? I've tried everything and i thought i fixed the problem of it not tracking straight, but, it still wants to drift left. So, now i'm considering what you suggested about the steering hub being bent.  I've look for a replacement, but "no longer available" and i saw one on ebay for $175. used.

so, my question is, since they're probably ductile cast, i might be able to heat it and possibly get it close to original shape? It seems like the lower part of the knuckle is the culprit. I'm thinking that is was bent back when the A arm was struck. I know trying to bend it back is like "backwoods" stuff, but i doubt my old lady will let me spend $175..lol A man's gotta do what he can. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by mga

[Mech]

They are quite soft, and can bend..  As long as we are gentle we should be able to bend them straight again..  Heat would help but then it's hard to handle and work. I think I might heat it and let it cool as slowly as possible, cover it with hot ashes would be good.. That would soften the metal to it's softest natural condition, called normalizing.  Then I'd use a one pound hammer on an anvil.

The trick is telling when it's right again..  Have you figured that out ? Might have to take the other side out and use that to compare as a mirror image..   

[mga]

unfortunately for me, i believe it's bent. I spent a lot of time taking measurements and comparing the right and left. The left one in question, for example, the tie rod part is almost an inch higher (upwards) than the right side one. Other measurements tell me it's kinda twisted. I'm afraid it might be putting stress on the bearings on that side.

so, i'll just buy a used one and hopefully this corrects the issue. 

[Gwbarm]

Thats quite a bend in a bad place, I would try to rig up a jack somehow between the A arm heat it and try to push it back in place it would have to be a very small jack, but as. Mech said knowing when it's right is a hard call.

[mga]

i replaced the A arm and i replaced the hub, put it all back together and. that left front wheel is still off like this:  "\" it's not that bad but its the only symbol i can find to show how much the camber is off.

Since i replaced just about everything on the left front side, I'm going to take a closer look at the frame. The lower frame looks OK, but the upper frame part seems like it's higher than the opposite side. My theory is if i could somehow pull that down to a near normal position, it will kick the upper A arm out, thereby pushing the top part of the wheel out to a more normal position.

I'll pull it in the garage tomorrow and take some frame measurements to see if i'm correct. I can drive this as it is, but i can feel it pulling slightly to the left because of the camber being off. I'll post back to let you guys know what i find. If i'm right about the frame my next issue is going to be how to fix it.  lol