Yamaha Timberwolf 250 need help

[Mech]

Last set of brushes, springs and plate I got was $27 kiwi..  I'd have trouble justifying a new starter to my customers at that rate.

[Gwbarm]

So 27 parts, do you do bearings, plus labor maybe an hr, and new OEM starter probably 450.00. Quite a bit of savings.

[Mech]

The bearings are good for about a million revolutions. It's possible to pick out the dust seals and apply a little grease in they seem dry.  I always pull things to bits before condemning them anyway, and it takes ten minutes to put those starters back together.

Yeah it used to be about $350 for a starter, they are still about $180 yanky which is this week about ..  Er $350 still.. Lat week it would have been a bit less. Brush sets I just saw are now from $15 to $23 kiwi.

 

[Mech]

I think people over estimate how long things take..  Those starters come apart in three minutes on the bench, or less, and they take ten minutes to put together, all greased up and tested.

 

[p5200]

I haven't rebuilt a starter before but, I'll probably rebuild mine if it goes south. I used to recondition Kirby, Rainbow, and Electrolux vacuum cleaners quite a while back.

I found a rear mastercylinder for my atv but, surely it can't be any good for $13.00 LOL!

[Mech]

They're a permanent magnet motor, and both ends come off so you can fit the brushes and back cap on to the armature, then slide the armature through the body and fit the other end on. Two long bolts, and a washer and nut on the power terminal, and it's all done.

And the brushes don't last long.. relatively speaking.. Some people that stop and start their bikes a lot, replace them after about four years. Sometimes brushes just get stuck in their holders from sitting. Brushes are way  the most common fault.

[Gwbarm]

You might be surprised at these cheap master cylinders, I have put a few on these little Chinese scooters and have been very impressed with the quality, rubber is good thick a lot better than I expected.

[Mech]

Oh yeah, I use new hydraulics these days..  largely because it's so hard to get new seals and boots these days, (not to mention the valves some have), and the cylinders are all aluminum and don't hone up so good. And it does take longer to do up hydraulics. There are more pitfalls.

I think the economics of things are different in different countries too.. Parts are dear here..

[Gwbarm]

Here too, plus labor is so high, we have turned into a throw away society, it the old days we didn't buy new we rebuilt it.

[p5200]

I'll probably try one then, it doesn't look like much trouble to remove it.

[Mech]

Throw away alright Gw, and out-source..  And it's good for business, they make money on the parts and out-work, and have no responsibility for the work.. but.. it just entices them to send everything out, and to fit every part possible..  I can't stand it..  That and lying so they can charge to repair what they'd stuffed up.. It's why I worked for myself..  I prefer to be honest, and do a good job.

[Atvguy0901]

Hey guys sorry for the late update but I got a new starter installed tonight and went to hit the button and noting but I crossed the starter solenoid and it’s cranked over and hit for a second so I am going in the right direction. There is still that one wire that is getting me. I hooked it to red and blew a fuse. I hooked it to black and nothing. I hooked it to black and white and nothing. So any idea or help is appreciated thank you

[Gwbarm]

Are you getting 12v and ground to the small wires on the solenoid.

[Mech]

According to the wiring diagram the black wires all go to earth, including the ones from the kill and main switches. When the switches are closed/turned to off, they connect the black earth wire to a wire that's black with a white stripe, to earth, and that kills the ignition. The black with white stripe comes from the cdi.

[JSL]

Ok. What yr is this atv? You really need a wiring diagram and a multimeter.  I'm not familiar with this model but does it have a neutral light indicator? In other words when u turn the key on and the atv is in neutral, what lights ( if any) are illuminated on the console?

[Atvguy0901]

Ok thank you for your help guys I will get a test light and a meter and do some testing. and so mech you are saying to connect the black to the black and white wires or no I can send a picture of the wires I am tlaking about. And to jsl it is a 1994 Yamaha Timberwolf 250 2x4.also yes it does have a neutral light indicator on it and it’s lights up when i turn the key to the on position. And also when I hit the button the stater solenoid relay clicks. 

[p5200]

Have you tried unplugging the positive wire from the solenoid connector and then tried touching it to the positive battery terminal to make sure the starter turns over the engine? That will determine whether or not the primary and secondary circuits are good in the relay. It can click and still, not be any good. I would unplug solenoid wires and check for proper voltage as GW said if touching solenoid + wire to battery causes the engine to turn over. I use  piercing probes with my meters a lot which can make pretty quick tests on wires sometimes. Good luck! You can check solenoid primary ground connection straight to battery also.

[Atvguy0901]

This is the part that is clicking. When I touch a screwdriver to the two post on the starter solenoid it’s cracked over 

[Gwbarm]

That is your starter cutout relay needs replacing

[p5200]

I thought that connector looked odd. I know my starter relay just has the bullet plug connectors.

[Atvguy0901]

That’s part is good it sparked when I touch the two post together I bet that’s why when I hit the start button it does not do anything 

[p5200]

If you're talking about bridging the two posts with the nuts on them, all that does is bypass the solenoid. If you can push a wire or multimeter probe into solenoid connector where the brown wire is then touch other end of probe or wire to battery positive, it should crank if, the solenoid is good. I'm just assuming,  the brown wire is indeed the hot wire.

[Atvguy0901]

Ok thank you I will have to try that and see what happens 

[Mech]

Atv, I posted a wiring diagram for the model with an eight wire cdi, did you see that ?

If you connect the black wire with a white stripe (described as "Bl"), which comes from the cdi, to any black wire, it will kill the ignition.

[Gwbarm]

BWhen you touch the 2 posts together you are bypassing everything and sending battery voltage directly to the starter  , if you have 12 v going to the relay when you push the button the relay closes and you get 12v to the starter soloenoid one with 2 big post and then to starter if it’s good and your wires going from the start button or switch are good .

[Mech]

The starter shouldn't operate with the kill switch or the main switch turned off..  but it does.. or was.

That sounds like the wrong key switch to me.. 

[Gwbarm]

I looked and was not sure which wiring diagram was correct for the bike.  Right mech, sounds like the switch wires are not color coded right, you can take the switch apart see which wire colors operate on and off, then look at the wiring diagram and wire it accordingly, some of the switches you can take the terminal out and move it to where it needs to be and still use the connector. Just looked at one of the wiring diagrams on the main switch R and Br in on, and B/W and B is off. 

[Mech]

The diagrams show several different switches, with different behavior. Some are just a single set of contacts, and some have two sets of contacts, and the two contact sorts can work both poles in parallel, or inversely, (so when one goes on the other goes off).

Edited March 28, 2023 by Mech

[Atvguy0901]

Ok thank you everyone when I get some free time I will check it out I feel like it’s the wrong switch or something is not wired up right on my end. 

[Atvguy0901]

Hey guys I have a update on my 95 Yamaha Timberwolf 250cc 2wd. I have got it to where it will run for a second on starting fluid and the. Just cranks.  Has spark is getting fuel. There was some nasty stuff in the bottom of the tank but got that taking care of. Like I said it will run for a second and then just keep cranking like it does not want to hit anymore. Any ideas