Spark issues

[ath1981]

While sitting still idling, bike died and after checking, no spark. I checked all fuses. Pulled cover and checked magneto cause I heard a noise when it died. Checked coil and it was bad. Got new coil, installed and still no spark. Coil checks good. Could I have a bad CDI? Not sure what voltage you should have going into coil, but one wire has .3v with ignition on. Both wires have .5v while turning engine over.

[Mech]

You'd better tell people what make and model it is..

 

[ath1981]

Arctic Cat 07 650 H1, sorry, figured it pertained to most bikes.

[Mech]

There are various different types of ignition in use on various makes and models..

In your case they say to test the cdi charge and trigger coils for resistance, and out-put, then check the wiring, and if it's all good assume it's the cdi..  Ha.. not the best diagnostic help. To test the stator windings and trigger you need to check their resistance stationary, and that they put out some small voltage when the engine is cranked over. You need to check those voltages are getting all the way to the cdi unit.

I assume you have the manual and are following it's recommendations and process.

I don't have a wiring diagram but there should be one somewhere for free.. it should show you where the kill and ignition switches connect to the ignition, it would be a good idea to disconnect or test those.  If you can't find anything, and you are sure all the wires are connected and have continuity, and aren't shorted to the frame anywhere, then it seems it will be the cdi unit..  Do you have a buddy that could let you try your cdi on his bike, or his cdi on your bike >

output.pdf

[Gwbarm]

Seems strange that coil and CDI would go out at the same time, I might look for a short, that might have taken them out, as Mech suggested.

[ath1981]

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

[Gwbarm]

To check the primary coil resistance you connect your meter leads one to one terminal and the other to the other terminal, to check secondary coil resistance you connect from spark plug cap to ground, the manual section posted didn't seem to tell you the values, but from memory primary should be about 1.5 ohms and secondary 6-8M ohms. Not sure where you are getting 142 volts from it should be 12 volts, what color is the wire that connects to the other terminal, B/W to one terminal and __ to the other terminal, repair manual that was posted didn't state that either. Sorry for the confusion maybe I am understanding you wrong.  

[Mech]

That is the momentary voltage to the coil when the cdi discharges..  The description of how to do the resistance readings is down a bit in the text.

You need a meter with a peak hold feature to catch the very short voltage spike..

[ath1981]

I have brand new coil, resistance reads: .001 between leads and .001 to ground on both. Plug wire to ground, and both leads 6.16 ohms (wire removed). I get 1.5vdc from 3 blacks wires coming from Mag when using starter. The white/blue wire to coil, I get .35vdc with ign on and .53vdc when turning over. I get .9vdc on black wire when turning over and .39vdc between the two.

What I also noticed, when turning the engine over, I get no spark, until I let off the start button, then it will spark one time.

[Gwbarm]

The  primary resistance on coil seems low, and also voltage going to it,  but im not looking at a manual. 

[Savage3]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, ath1981 said:

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

 

See notes in your service manual listed directly below where you extracted your test procedures.

Mech mentioned this in a previous post and it's important.

PEAK VOLTAGE (500/650 H1/650 
V-Twin)
NOTE: All of the peak voltage tests should be
made using the Fluke Model 73 Multimeter (p/n
0644-191) with Peak Voltage Reading Adapter (p/n
0644-307). If any other type of tester is used, read-
ings may vary due to internal circuitry.
NOTE: The battery must be at full charge for
these tests.

[Savage3]

Section 5.pdf

Hopefully this helps, of not we can provide input where needed sir

[Savage3]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, ath1981 said:

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

White/blue wire is primary.

Resistance on primary is .5 ohms according to wiring diagram.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Savage3
Mistake

[Savage3]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, ath1981 said:

The 650 H! has 2 wires going to the coil. The manual says: 

1. Set the meter selector to the DC Voltage position; then disconnect the blue/white primary wire from the coil.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the primary wire; then connect the black tester lead to ground.

Which of the 2 wires is primary? Should I get the same voltage from both? Which is: 142.4-213.6 DC volts - 650 H1.

Is this voltage running? Surely not this high turning over with starter.

 

 

Ignition Coil
On the 250/300, the ignition coil is attached to the
upper frame behind the right-hand side panel. To
access the coil, the seat and right-hand side panel must
be removed (see Section 8).
On the 400 ACT/TRV, the ignition coil is on top of the
engine. To access the coil, the seat and gas tank (see
Section 4) must be removed.On the 400
FIS/TBX/500/650 H1/650 V-Twin, the ignition coil is
on the left-side frame above the engine. To access the
coil, the left-side panel (see Section 2) must be
removed.
VOLTAGE (Primary Side)
NOTE: The ignition switch must be in the ON
position; the emergency stop switch must be in
the RUN position. Also, the white/blue wire must
be disconnected from the coil.
1. Set the meter selector to the D.C. Voltage position.

2. Connect the red tester lead to the white/blue wire;
then connect the black tester lead to ground.
3. The meter must show 31V ± 20%.
4. With the tester leads connected, depress the starter
button.
5. The meter must show 130V ± 20%.
NOTE: If the voltage is not as specified in one or
both of the above tests, inspect the main wiring
harness, connectors, source/charge coil, magneto
rotor and magnets, magneto rotor key, or the CD unit

Edited May 8, 2023 by Savage3

[Savage3]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:08 AM, ath1981 said:

I have brand new coil, resistance reads: .001 between leads and .001 to ground on both. Plug wire to ground, and both leads 6.16 ohms (wire removed). I get 1.5vdc from 3 blacks wires coming from Mag when using starter. The white/blue wire to coil, I get .35vdc with ign on and .53vdc when turning over. I get .9vdc on black wire when turning over and .39vdc between the two.

What I also noticed, when turning the engine over, I get no spark, until I let off the start button, then it will spark one time.

There should be a wire that goes from coil to kill switch. Unplug that wire from coil and you should have spark. I've seen this before......I don't have time to look at diagram now, but I fixed the one spark problem before....

[Savage3]

Unhook black wire from coil.

Then try to start it, check for spark.

I'm assuming you don't have other issues. Usually, this will work when you only have one spark.

In short, it's a ground issue.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Savage3
More information

[ath1981]

After posting about the spark, only when releasing the start button. I remembered I had this issue with a go-cart a few years back. It was a CDI issue on it. So I bought a new CDI and it runs like a champ. Hope this helps someone else.

[Gwbarm]

Thats great you got it fixed, I was suspecting the CDI, but I hate to tell someone to buy a very expensive part when im not positive thats the problem.

[Greg1978]

Welcome here

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