Where is Nuetral Safety Switch 06 Big Bear 400 4wd?

[JonnyBlaze]

I need to diagnose / replace switch on my Big Bear. It's been intermediate over last few years and finally quit. Nuetral light doesn't come on and have to pull brake in to start. 

[Ajmboy]

Should be similar to 

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Just now, Ajmboy said:

Should be similar to 

 

It's not. 

[Mech]

The manual I looked in showed the neutral switch on top behind the starter motor.

[Gwbarm]

👍

[Gwbarm]

Just out of curiosity, where did you find that information. 

We kind of had this manual discussion a little before, i agree there is great information there, information that you couldnt do the job without. But when it comes to something small like this i looked until i was tired of looking and didnt find it. I looked through the table of contents, i looked through the engine section, i looked through the electrical section, never did see where its locaated how to test it or replace it. I know im not as sharp as i used to be but i looked hard and i was using a Big Bear 400 manual. 

[JonnyBlaze]

6 minutes ago, Gwbarm said:

Just out of curiosity, where did you find that information. 

We kind of had this manual discussion a little before, i agree there is great information there, information that you couldnt do the job without. But when it comes to something small like this i looked until i was tired of looking and didnt find it. I looked through the table of contents, i looked through the engine section, i looked through the electrical section, never did see where its locaated how to test it or replace it. I know im not as sharp as i used to be but i looked hard and i was using a Big Bear 400 manual. 

I think I found it here. See pic. No idea how to test or replace it. Obviously clutch cover has to come off but no idea how it's mounted. 

[JonnyBlaze]

Where?

[Gwbarm]

I did find this video, doesnt say what year, and i have never seen a Big Bear professional, so im not sure if its different from other 400s.

 

 

[Mech]

#6 Gw. There's generally, pretty early on, a page or two showing where all the main components and electrical bits are, in most manuals, but in this case I found the info in the wiring and cable routing.

And, I didn't check but as far as I know if the bike will start with the brakes applied, but won't start because there is no neutral light, then it means everything's fine except the neutral switch or it's wiring.

[JonnyBlaze]

10 hours ago, Gwbarm said:

I did find this video, doesnt say what year, and i have never seen a Big Bear professional, so im not sure if its different from other 400s.

 

 

I've seen that video. Mine doesn't have that fuse or I haven't found it yet. 

[Gwbarm]

Thanks! I did find it in the cable routing, i think it showed the light, and did see it mentioned in the electrical section, never did find where it was located ,  I will look again at the beginning and see if i missed it. I was looking in a 2000 manual, but should be close to the same.

I think you are right about it being under the cover, thats where i thought it was, but the few videos i saw show it different, like the lug sticking out with a wire attached, like the old 350s had.

[JonnyBlaze]

So apparently the clutch has to come out to replace it. Not worth the hassle. 

[Mech]

Well, since it still seems uncertain where it is I looked in a parts diagram and it shows it being an oval shaped plate with two bolts and one wire, and it looks like it's on the right side of the engine.. but it's unclear where, presumably it will be on the end of the shift barrel/drum, which would be near the lower rear.

[Gwbarm]

I think i ended up determining that it was under the cover, mine started working again kind of off and on so i never did fix mine, i started working on something else and forgot about it, and this post jogged my memory. Im not sure what that big bear is that i posted the video on but said it was a 400 and his is definately in a different place, must not be a US model, thought you might recognize it.

[Mech]

Yeah we've seen them inside that right side cover, which is what it looks like in the parts diagram.

[Gwbarm]

All the 400s iv seen has been under that right cover, but the one in the video, big bear 400 professional, which i have never seen before, showed it being screwed directly into the transmission housing like the 350s were and the Bear Tracker in post #2.

[Mech]

#13 Johnny.. The first thing to try is pull the brakes on and see if it will electric start. If it does then the rest of the circuit is right and you just need to fix the neutral light.

That plug on the engine has two wires and one is for neutral and the other is for reverse. They both earth to the engine when they are on. If you test and figure which is the neutral and which is the reverse wire, then you short the appropriate wire on the bike's loom to earth it should light up the two lamps. If the neutral lights wire doesn't make the bulb come on then it might have a wire problem.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

2 minutes ago, Mech said:

#13 Johnny.. The first thing to try is pull the brakes on and see if it will electric start. If it does then the rest of the circuit is right and you just need to fix the neutral light.

That plug on the engine has two wires and one is for neutral and the other is for reverse. They both earth to the engine when they are on. If you test and figure which is the neutral and which is the reverse wire, then you short the appropriate wire on the bike's loom to earth it should light up the two lamps. If the neutral lights wire doesn't make the bulb come on then it might have a wire problem.

 

It starts with brake lever in. The red green wires coming out of the motor for safety switch go to a plug that turns into a light blue wire and another color. I believe the light blue is nuetral side. So if I unplug it there and ground out the light blue wire, the light should come on? If it does, the switch is bad? Is so, it can stay bad because I'm not messing with pulling the clutch and all that just to access it. 

[Gwbarm]

That is a lot of work just for the neutral light. I decided to wait and replace it when i redo the clutch.

[Gwbarm]

This really has nothing to do with the problem, but the video i posted of the Big Bear 400 professional peaked my curiosity. I had never seen or heard of one and the neutral switch was in the right place for a 350. I found out that the quad was only sold in Canada and it was a short run production. It seems none of the other parts from the 400 engine was the same either. I dont know how long it was produced but the one i am referring to was a 2004 model.  My only conclusion is this was a Big Bore 350 engine for a trial run. Probably a very rare quad . 

[Mech]

#19..  Yeah I think the Sb(sky blue) will be the neutral light wire, and if you short that to the engine the neutral light should come on, and the bike should start.

If you short the Sb wire to the engine and the neutral light comes on, but the bike still doesn't start with the starter, then you need to check the Sb wire from the switch to the cdi.

[Gwbarm]

👍

[JonnyBlaze]

On 7/5/2024 at 4:13 AM, Mech said:

#19..  Yeah I think the Sb(sky blue) will be the neutral light wire, and if you short that to the engine the neutral light should come on, and the bike should start.

If you short the Sb wire to the engine and the neutral light comes on, but the bike still doesn't start with the starter, then you need to check the Sb wire from the switch to the cdi.

I grounded the sb wire and nuetral light came on and it started. So I temporary grounded it so i can start it without putting the brake in every time. 

How can I test the switch and how do I remove the clutch to access the switch? 

[Gwbarm]

It kind of a pain thats why i havent done mine yet, you have to drain all the oil, pull the clutch side cover, and pull both clutches to access, the one thats in the way is the primary clutch, but you have to pull the centrifical to get that off. If i go to all this trouble i will just put a new switch in.

[JonnyBlaze]

14 hours ago, Gwbarm said:

It kind of a pain thats why i havent done mine yet, you have to drain all the oil, pull the clutch side cover, and pull both clutches to access, the one thats in the way is the primary clutch, but you have to pull the centrifical to get that off. If i go to all this trouble i will just put a new switch in.

What's involved in pulling the clutches? Just unbolt and slide off? 

[Mech]

You can test the switch using an ohm gauge. Disconnect the switch's plug and when it's in neutral, from the wire to the engine  should show zero ohms, when it's in gear it should show open circuit. Even better than the gauge would be a test light from the battery positive to the wire. The light should behave just as the neutral light does, on when in neutral and off in gear. The test light is better because it puts some current through the switch contacts so it really tests the contacts under working conditions.

Checking for voltage or reading ohms is often not a very satisfactory test because the gauges use so little current that they will read enough voltage when there's no load on the circuit, but once a load comes on the voltage drops right down. If you are going to use a volt gauge you really need to measure the voltage with the load off and then with the load on, and the voltage shouldn't drop by more than about a half a volt in most circuits. If i\a measurement starts at 12v but drops right down when the load is on then there is a bad connection that the simple check for voltage under no load doesn't show.

The best way to use a volt gauge is by doing what's called a voltage drop test. A voltage drop test is described online, or, I notice that Polaris service manuals go to some trouble to describe all the different applications of a voltage drop test.

[Gwbarm]

Not bad once you get the cover off, there are nuts with a bend up tab holding the nuts in place, just bend those tabs out of the way and get the nuts off the clutches slide right off the shaft.

[JonnyBlaze]

4 minutes ago, Gwbarm said:

Not bad once you get the cover off, there are nuts with a bend up tab holding the nuts in place, just bend those tabs out of the way and get the nuts off the clutches slide right off the shaft.

That's it? 

[Gwbarm]

Thats it to get to the switch. It under the primary clutch. Just be sure to torque the nuts back on and bend up the tab.