Battery issue with 1994 Yamaha Timberwolf

[k_kindig11]

Ok, a couple months ago I bought a heavily used 1994 Yamaha timberwolf 250 2x4 quad. It needs a lot of work.. stuff that I'm slowly going through. One interesting question I have is...

The battery in the quad is going bad. It won't hold a charge for very long so I have to charge the quad every time I go to ride and hope it doesn't die. So I thought the battery was just going bad so I ordered a new one. I hadn't taken the old battery out when I ordered a new one, just figured I'd leave it in there until the new one came in. When the new one came in, I filled it and charged it properly. Put it in the quad, but it would not turn it over. The light comes on when I turn the key on, but it won't do anything for the quad as far as starting it.... no click or anything. I know the battery is charged and working properly. I thought maybe I ordered the wrong battery, but online it says that it's the right battery. The new battery that I just bought is a Moto Power CB12C-A. Looked at the old battery and it says it's a Superior 12N14-3A which looks to me like a battery used on older, bigger motorcycles. One, why won't the battery I just bought work? And two, any guesses why that 12N14-3A battery was used (and seems to work properly other than the lack of holding a charge, which I attribute to just being pretty old)?

Any thoughts or opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Ajmboy]

So you filled the battery and let it sit for a bit, right? Did you make sure that all your connections are tight? It should still start, a 12v battery is a 12v battery. The sizes are the differences along with CCA. You could technically hook up your car battery and it should start your quad.

It's possible that the new battery is bad, take it to a sears auto center , firestone, goodyear, or auto parts store and have them test it for you, just to be sure.

[DirtDemon]

I would have to guess that you may have a blown fuse in the starter curcuit.

[k_kindig11]

Thanks for the help guys. Turns out the NEW battery had a bad cell in it. Working great now with a new battery.

My NEXT issue. And this was happening before also with the old battery or the battery charger on the quad. I thought the new battery may fix the issue but it didnt. When I hit the start button, it makes a rev-ing noise when you hold the button and the starter sounds and feels like it's working or atleast spinning, but it's not turning over the motor. Before, it would do that upon initial startup. After running it for awhile, it doesn't do it anymore and turns over the motor every time. It's really hard to get it started for the first time of the day though because it rarely turns over the motor. It will occasionally turn it over a stroke or two and I'll finally get it to fire. Then it's fine once it's warm.

[k_kindig11]

Found this on another site, sounds exactly like my issue. Starter bendix?? How easily is this to replace and where can I get the part?

If the starter spins but all you hear is the starter motor turning, then chances are the starter bendix is bad.

or if it does this and occasionally starts the engine then the bendix is going out.

but visibly inspect the flywheel make sure none of the teeth are broken or worn out.

but if the starter motor runs but doesn't engage everytime then you need a bendix.

[Ajmboy]

Thanks for the help guys. Turns out the NEW battery had a bad cell in it. Working great now with a new battery.

My NEXT issue. And this was happening before also with the old battery or the battery charger on the quad. I thought the new battery may fix the issue but it didnt. When I hit the start button, it makes a rev-ing noise when you hold the button and the starter sounds and feels like it's working or atleast spinning, but it's not turning over the motor. Before, it would do that upon initial startup. After running it for awhile, it doesn't do it anymore and turns over the motor every time. It's really hard to get it started for the first time of the day though because it rarely turns over the motor. It will occasionally turn it over a stroke or two and I'll finally get it to fire. Then it's fine once it's warm.

It happens, that's why I mentioned that about a new battery going bad. I've seen it before. As for your starter, it sounds like the starter is not engaging and could be a bad solenoid if on the starter. When it does it, see if you can reach in and tap it with a hammer, and see if it engages. More than likely it will need replacement, unless you are able to get it rebuilt.

[lawny]

Could try taking the starter off and cleaning with brake clean, might be a solution to try before buying a new bendix. Could just be dirty and/or gummed up, and sticking when the engine is cold.

[k_kindig11]

It doesn't seem to help tapping on it while starting it. I tried that already. There's something about it being cold that it won't engage. Like I said, once it's warmed up it engages no problem. I'll try taking it apart and cleaning it real good to see what that does. So is the bendix within the starter assembly or incased within the engine? Honestly it looks like it would probably just be cheaper to buy a new starter unit if that's the problem (or used one in good condition) than repair the old one.

[Raptor8]

I suggest takin it off and cleaning it all up. Take the solenoid off and clean it up, clean the crud off the bendix drive and test fire it on the bench a few times. With any luck it is something that a good cleaning will fix.

[k_kindig11]

I will give that a try. I will post the outcome when I get it completed... but that's may be a couple weeks....

Thanks to everyone for his/her input. It is greatly appreciated.

[k_kindig11]

Well I just bought a new starter. Only $60. I couldnt get the old one to go. I took it apart and cleaned it but didnt help. It was already real clean.

[Raptor8]

so what happened?

pretty hard to diagnose without seeing it, esp when you mentioned that it was 'well used.'

[k_kindig11]

Ok, I bought a brand new starter. Just got it yesterday and put it on today. It still does the same thing as it did so I know the starter isn't the problem. It's ok though, I'm fine with having a new starter on it anyway. So I took the crankcase cover off so I could see what was going on. When I hit the starter, the starter does spin. The starter meshes up with a small idler gear that is also spinning. The small idler gear meshes up with a bigger idler gear just behind the starter clutch and it also spins. No broken teeth or anything on any of those gears. They all look good and mesh up good. That's as far as I can see without starting to pull out parts. The big idler gear behind the starter clutch spins but I don't think the starter clutch is spinning... either that or it's not engaging with the crank. The starter clutch is located behind the rotor for the stator assembly right in front of the big idler gear, correct?

I guess that's as far as my knowledge goes. I'm not sure how the mechanism works as far as what is suppose to happen after that bigger idler gear spins. Somehow the starter clutch I'm assuming has to grab the crank and turn the engine over? And that's what it's not doing.... Any ideas?

Edited February 23, 2011 by k_kindig11

[MIKEL5469]

sounds like u have a bad starter clutch,i replaced mine in my raptor,i am sure they are similar,you u get a lifetime warranty,and rebuildable one way from l&a one way,i used them on both of my bikes and have had real good luck.........also look at the big gear that the starter clutch rides on,9 out of 10 times i will destroy the hub that it rides on.the gear should also be replaced,and be sure to change ur oil to get all the shavings out of the motor............good luck,hope this helps ya

[k_kindig11]

That was kind of my guess... that the starter clutch must be bad. Either that or I thought maybe the starter wasn't spinning the gears fast enough for the clutch to engage? Not sure... Unless anyone else has any ideas, I'll probably be pulling that starter clutch and gear out and replacing them. Thanks alot for your input.

[MIKEL5469]

look up l&a on the net,see if they make a starter clutch for ur model.......they were awesome to me,good luck,let me know what u find out

[DirtDemon]

I agree, even if it wasn't the clutch itself, you would still have to take it apart to figure it out. The only thing I can think of besides the starter clutch not engaging is that there may be a woodruff key on the crank, or if it is splined, the splines could be stripped, but I think that is not likely, it is probably the starter clutch.