My Moto4 project

[tin]

 A few weeks ago, I foolishly asked my girlfriend about a quad that's been sitting under a tree at her parents' place for 25 years... This thread will be a sort of log of my attempt to resurrect it. I'm actually a computer guy, not a mechanic, so this will be quite conical for some of you, I'm fairly sure 🤣

So far I've found out it's likely a 200. Not sure what year yet... The frame has a serial of 53J-001343 (I think). Engine appears to have the same number.

We inflated the tyres on Saturday, which were still up today, so that seems a win. This also confirmed that the wheels do turn, as it rolled back into its 25 year old indentations as the 4th tyre started coming up.

Oil looks used but otherwise OK. I'll change it if I actually get it running, but looks good enough for attempting to start it up again.

Fuel tank had.... something in it. It smelt more like old stagnant water than fuel of any sort. Drained that out and flushed some clean fuel through to be sure.

Fuel tap was jammed in the off position. WD40 and some force got it free. Did that after the fuel hose was off, so hopefully the carb isn't full of whatever it was in the ttank.

Engine turns fairly easily with the rope start. Made typical exhaust puffing sounds.

Unfortunately the rope mechanism was not fully rewinding, so I was limited to about half its length... And today it jammed fully pulled out. I attempted to remove the rusty screws, but one stripped it's head out. So for now the rope rewind is jammed.

Spark plug connector seems possibly burnt inside. Black crap on both the plug and up in the connector, and the connector doesn't seem to actually stay on.

Throttle lever is stuck fast. See photo for possible reason... Cable also feels jammed. I assume the throttle itself is jammed. That'll be fun given my skill level.

Electrical stuff all seems dead. No headlights. No starter. No indicator lights. Could be a fuse. Could be bad connection. Not something I'm too worried about at this point.

Front brake handle works. Parking brake clip thing was bent out of shape, but that's now fixed and working. Front brake only works on one wheel. Other one seemed rusted in place (off). WD40 and hammer got it free, although still stiff. Cable might be broken as it doesn't move at all when the handle is pulled.

Rear foot brake works but needs adjusting.

Other handlebar lever doesn't budge. Not sure if that's a clutch lever or rear brake... If this is the 200 version, I gather it's got a centrifugal clutch so it would be a brake lever... But I'm not yet sure exactly which model I'm working with. And the cables all disappear under the plastics and fuel tank and I didn't bother trying to trace where it goes yet.

Thats probably about it for this post.

[Gwbarm]

Sound like the engine is not locked up I would squirt some oil down in the cylinder to make sure rings are well lubricated before I turn it over much. I would pull the drain plug not completely at first just to see if any water comes out then pull it all the way out and let all the oil drain out look at it to see if its milky looking, and change the oil. From the photo it appears the master cylinder needs replacing you can take it all apart clean it and try soaking the rubber parts in brake fluid but in my experience it won't come back. As far as electrical look for corrosion on connectors and fuse box and check the ground. Hope this helps a little, 25 years is a long time to sit out in the weather.

[tin]

The photo is just the thumb lever full of ants.... I'm not that worried about that part at this stage. I cleaned the ants out and sprayed the inside of the lever with plenty of WD40, so hopefully by the time I get to look at it next it'll have come free.

They did have it covered with a tarp for most of the 25 years, so it's not too bad.

[WisQuad]

I just rehabbed a 88 MOTO 4 200 that I picked up for $300 off of Market Place.  I got a fully operational machine on the trails for under $600.  Parts are cheap and plentiful on Amazon.

All I needed was a coil, a carb (the price of a carb is not much more than a rebuild kit, saving a lot of tedious work), a new petcock (the handle was broke off) brake pads and front brake cables).

 

Oh yeah and redneck engineer the the air box as the door and cage were gone and I was unable to source them for a reasonable price.

 

Good luck on your project and have fun.

[Gwbarm]

Good job! Glad to hear you got it running for minimal cost.

[kenikas]

Hi Tin, that doesn't sound foolish at all to me! That's what my grandson and I do for fun, we've been restoring a 91 Moto 4 250 that we got as a basket case a while back. A least yours is all together 😂. But most parts are available with a little scrounging on Amazon or Ebay, and there are quite a few in the salvage yards as well (we've had really good luck with Power Sports Nation), and you can usually get an answer to any problem you run into on the forums here. Look in to downloading a manual for it here, that's pretty much a gotta have.

Good luck with it

[Gwbarm]

Glad to see so many young people learning to restore these older bikes, and putting them back on the trails.

[tin]

I'm not exactly young... I'm older than the bike 🤣

The plan for it is mostly to do with weed control, fence maintenance and eventually stock movement. We may still buy a newer one aswell, but I want to get this one going anyway.

Unfortunately I've had no chance to look at it any further because it's been so wet here lately. Can't even drive down the driveway at the place it's at, and we had to make a rush trip to a different property the other day to feed chickens before the road got cut off from flooding.

[WisQuad]

I am not that yong either but in a few years this could be a good retirement hobby.  Rehabing old quads. Low cost and should be able to sell them after I am done to

buy the next project lol.

[kenikas]

That can be a dangerous road to go down! 😆  I have way to many hobbies that started out as ways to possibly make a bit of spare cash to help support them, and they all seem to snowball and end up costing a bunch. But I definitely enjoy them. I find we get to attached to our quad collection lol

[Gwbarm]

Agreed parts have gotten so expensive there aren't cheap fixes anymore. Around here parts bikes are going for around 500.00 im talking about complete junkers so the parts are well used, end up costing more than anticipated, been there, done that.

[Mech]

I'm a mechanic and I always find there's a bit of a moral dilemma too in fixing thing up to sell for a profit..  Just how gooder job do you do, and how honest are you going to be when you sell it. 

I decided early in my career not to ever do that, buy and sell, after seeing mates do it.. to their discredit.

[Mech]

Also, over here, the tax rules say that anything you do, even a hobby, is taxable if it's "ongoing", or "regular".

I value my reputation for honesty, given I operate in a small community, and my integrity, too much to be seen as dishonest in any way... even to  the IRD.  Even though people would consider it ok to deceivethe IRD, it would still reflect on the worth of my word..

The crux of professional behavior is giving people confidence and trust in your methods and procedures. Anything that detracts from your trustworthiness undermines that.

[Mech]

Now, my son is a qualified mechanic, and he started doing bikes up, against my advice, and after having the dilemma explained to him, and he found out real quick, despite his resolve to do it honestly and fairly, that it was really hard to make money without cutting corners.

Now he just fixes them for fun and to get bikes back on the road or track.. That works. He does a good job then, and breaks even, and everyone is happy.

[kenikas]

I have to agree Mech. It's a personal problem with  me as well, I've been an aircraft mechanic for years, and find it nearly impossible to fix something "just good enough" to get by.

[Mech]

Ha.. Yes mate, that's exactly it. Good to hear.

And aircraft eh ? Were you an engine guy, or airframe ?  Those old piston engines are something aren't they..  Beautiful..

[SilverLaker]

Hey Tin,

 

Sounds like a good project. I have a 1988 200, which sufffered an engine fire. They are easy to work on, but you may have to get creative for some of the parts which are no longer available. Im new to the site as well but fell free to PM me if you have any questions. I will try and uplaod a pdf shop manual as I have one. 

 

Take care

moto 4 manual.pdf

[kenikas]

On 9/23/2022 at 3:51 PM, Mech said:

Ha.. Yes mate, that's exactly it. Good to hear.

And aircraft eh ? Were you an engine guy, or airframe ?  Those old piston engines are something aren't they..  Beautiful..

Yeah I've been at it for going on 40 years, back and forth between fixing 'em and flying 'em. So I've done lots of airframe work, as well as most types of engines from the old radial piston's to turbofans. And yes, the old piston radials are amazing, a bit like working on a giant watch! 😄

[tin]

Well it's been a few weeks... It's been flooding on and off here since I last posted, so didn't get much time for side projects.

Weekend before last I took a trailer out to where the bike was sitting, loaded it up, and brought it to town to work on in my garage. Much nicer than under a tree at someone else's house with only the tools I thought to grab and take with me.

Since getting it home, I've spent some time trying to check the wiring... Discovered what looks like some DIY wiring repairs. Lots of crimp on generic single wire connectors.... Including a batch that are jammed into one of the factory connectors. Also found theres a busted wire on the key switch - the switch is fine, but one wire doesn't conduct. It's on the kill side not the run side, so I'm not that worried just yet.

And tonight I removed the stuck screws on the rope starter cover and got that off. Lots of dirt inside, which I've scraped out. But the spring seems to have completely let go. Not sure how or even if that piece comes apart. Leaving it off for now, but definitely want to try and repair it for the inevitable flat battery while stopped at the far side of the farm.

Planning to hook up a random 12v battery next and check through the wiring around the neutral and reverse switches and indicators. I feel like having those known working is going to be a big help in testing the starter circuit.

[tin]

Update on my progress...

I had a play with the rope rewinder unit the other night. Still not sure how it comes apart, and is not mentioned in the service manual (not in the one posted above anyway). The nut on the centre spins freely, so I can't undo that. There's some sort of spring clip thing under the plastic that I pulled out, but that didn't release anything (it was already loose - not even sure what it's for). If anyone has any tips or guidance or anything for this part....

Next up was some fiddling with the electrical side. I hooked a dead (sitting at 5V out of 12) old lead acid battery up just to try and chase out voltages on the indicator lights and such. Quickly discovered the voltage was dropping off fast, even with everything turned off. Managed to trace that to the voltage regulator. That has been my mystery resistance the whole time... Unplugged it, and I now have an open circuit with everything switched off, and if press the engine start button, I get a resistance again (the coil in the relay, I assume).

With limited access to any 12V batteries, I grabbed one of my 3S RC packs... just to see if the neutral/reverse indicators would light. Nope. For shots and goggles, I pressed the start button very briefly... And we have starter... Or at least the relay clicks. I didn't want to kill the battery so it was an extremely short press.

And right now I've just solved the mystery of the indicator lights... They're both blown bulbs. Doh! This whole time I've assumed it's something worse, but it's just bulbs. Dang it. Oh, well... I already had down to replace those with LEDs at some stage anyway.

[Mech]

Ha good onya mate.

If those pull starts are like a suzuki the nut in the middle that turns, will be seized onto a shaft that comes up through everything that it all spins on. That shaft is meant to be attached to the tin cover. I'd probably try splitting the nut open with a chisel and anvil till it turned or split right off, and then brazing the shaft back onto the cover.

[tin]

I was thinking it was probably supposed to be attached to the housing. It looks basically the same as that diagram. I'll probably cut a slot with the Dremel and see if a screwdriver can hold it enough to unscrew it, then cut it right off if it doesn't. I want to at least get the cover back on for safety if I can't fix it. Long term, if the quad runs OK, I'll buy a new housing anyway because this one has a hole in the top where dirt gets in.

[Mech]

Sounds good to me..  You wouldn't want your boot/sock/jeans getting caught in that crank fitting.

[Mwhyte50]

Great Job!

[tin]

Wow... It's been almost 2 years since I last posted. Well, that's partly because I barely touched the thing since then. I spent about 12 months barely able to get out of bed after what I believe was likely Ross River Fever. Then as I started getting over that, my parents began a fairly extensive renovation on their house - where the quad is kept in the garage. For most of that time, I wasn't able to access it at all because it was covered with items from the house.

Anyway, shortly after that renovation concluded, a friend of my mothers (who happens to own a slightly newer model of Moto4) was visiting, and he took the float bowl off the carb and managed to free the slide so the carb could be removed. It was filthy - both antique fuel gunk and some corrosion. The jets were very firmly blocked. After a day of soaking in turps (that's what we had on hand), I was able to push a big chunk of stinky goo out of one. The other took a bit longer, but also came good.

Today I pushed it outside, loaded a little bit of fuel into the carb bowl, and hooked up the jumper pack. Held the starter for a bit... Just the same puffing and chugging sounds as with no fuel before. Dang it... Tried choking it by covering the intake (the actual choke is still stuck)... And I got a cough. Not like a healthy one, but a start. I then pulled the throttle wide open, and covered the intake a little again. This time I got quite a few coughs in a row, and an increase in RPM after about the 2nd or 3rd one. I think it almost started... But then it just started sounding dry again. I'm pretty sure the small amount of fuel I dribbled in ran out.

The fuel tank has been soaking for a couple of days with dish washing detergent. After the excitement of it almost starting, I decided I should check on that so I have a more convenient means to load fuel in. Tested both the "reserve" and "on" positions on the petcock, and both no flow freely. Prior to soaking, the reserve position flowed OK, but seemed a little restricted. The main "on" position was really bad. After the soaking, both run quite freely. Much faster than before. I rinsed out the soapy water several times, and took it out to the sun to dry. I'll probably leave it until tomorrow to make sure it's not got water in it anymore.

Oh, and while I had that upside down to empty it, I noticed it has a manufacture year of 1984... So that gives me some clue to the bike's manufacture date. There's also the detail that the one I have has no suspension at all. Just a solid frame. I believe that may be literally just the first year they were made since I've seen reference to suspension on a 1985 model.

While moving it around, I discovered the rear brakes are not as usable as I thought they were. I was able to push it with the "parking" clip thingy engaged in the lever with just some rubbing sounds coming from the back. Front brakes I think will work, but the cable is jamming up. My day job is in a sports shop where I assemble and repair human powered bicycles, so this part is going to be pretty well something I'll have no trouble with.

 

That's basically where I'm up to now. The weather is really warming up here in my part of Australia,

[Gwbarm]

Welcome back! Sorry to hear about your illness. Not really familiar with Ross River fever.

It sounds like your getting back to your quad, getting the fuel system cleaned out  and get it running good, checking for good spark and compression are good first steps. Good luck!

[tin]

It lives!

I took part of the day off today (from my unpaid jobs), hooked the fuel tank back up, made a mess leaking fuel out of the carb (had a feeling that would happen).... And pressed the starter. Cough, cough... Adjust the air fuel mix. And it started. Woohoo.

I was able to drive it down the driveway a few metres pulling the throttle cable by hand (the lever is still jammed hard, so the cable is just hanging loose at the moment). Reversed it back in. Enough fuel in the bowl to do that.

Now I need to make a shopping list... And take the carb back off to fix the float. Choke still doesn't move so I'll need to work on that some more too. But it runs so I'm much happier to start ordering parts now. I won't feel like I'm throwing money into a pit 🤣

[Gwbarm]

Thats great you got it to run. You can take the choke plunger out of the carb if its stuck try some carb cleaner or WD 40 to free it up and get it out then you can oil the cable. You are well on your way, well done!

[Mech]

Good work.

Careful riding bikes with a pull cable throttle... and no brakes.

[tin]

I've been slowly progressing through things since my last post.

Not sure if I mentioned it previously, but I got a cheap regulator/rectifier, and that's sorted out the battery drain issue. Lights work. There's voltage output to the battery. Just needs a battery now, which I've ordered and should have by mid next week.

I also bought a cheap carb kit just for the gasket and seals. It was cheaper than buying the bowel gasket on its own. Jets aren't labelled so I didn't use them because they're probably for the 250 (main looked bigger visually). Replaced the main jet O ring, the o ring on the engine intake side and the bowel gasket. Bent the little tab on the float a little to correct the leaking (which I'd forgotten about and had to re-disassemble the carb for - doh).

Choke plunger is still well stuck, but I don't know if I'll need to fix that. It's stuck off, and our winters don't get too cold. And generally if it's too cold for it to start, it's going to be too cold for me too. 🤣

Today I took it outside and sprayed down the 2 leaky tyres (both on the right side) to see what was happening there. Looks like the tyres are "fine". One leaks from the base of the valve stem, and the other from the bead. I guess that's better than cracks leaking. Since they both leak very slowly, I'll probably ignore it for the moment. The front tyres need replacing anyway, so I'll fix the leak on that one when I replace them. Valve stem leak is in the rear, and I might have a go at the method I saw on YouTube to replace it without special tools (cut the old one, then push the new one in with needle nose pliers). Haven't really decided yet.

I also scrubbed a bunch of mud and grease off the bottom, and now I can see the oil drain plug. That should make changing the oil a little easier 😁

 

And then I started it up again and actually drove it from the yard back to the garage - the longest drive it's done in about 20 years. About 50 metres 🤣

Next item on the shopping list is now a seat. Not getting a proper one. I'll get a Chinese generic one and just make it fit. Originally I was planning to just bolt a piece of wood on make a flat surface to sit on, but the eBay seats are all around $30-$50. I've got a bunch in my eBay watchlist. Just need to go through the measurements and check what's going to fit best. I did already have one picked out that looked perfect months ago, but didn't note which one it was, and now I've forgotten. Whoops.