1998 Arctic Cat 454 4x4 (Water in Engine)

[jfkkhi]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and also new to “ATV”.

I just bought 1998 Arctic Cat 454 4x4; according to last owner it wasn’t used for last 3 years.

I tried to change the engine oil, noticed coolant water inside and mixed with oil. Now I changed the oil and filter and still can’t start.

Any ideas? How fix this water and oil mix issue?

Thanks

[swampcat07]

First welcome to the forum!!

If he flooded the engine and did nothing for three years that is not good news. You would have to tear it down and rebuild it.

First is first. See if the starter works and that you are getting spark and gas. Next would be to try and crank it with the plug removed. See if any water comes out of the spark plug hole. If it still dosen't crank over then I would pull the top end and see what kind of condition it is in. Also if is in deed coolant and not pond water then you would have to most likely replace the head gasket anyways.

I would also clean the carb and make a note of what jets are installed in there.

Take some pics and come back and let us know how you are doing. I work on arctic cats alot (454 not so often) and would be glad to help.

[jfkkhi]

Hi Swampcat07,

Thanks for your fast and informative response.

I took it home and bought new battery and fill the gas tank and then started. It starts few times but only last few minutes.

The next morning I noticed gas tank was empty and gas was coming from carburetor.

So, I opened carburetor and noticed floater stuck, so cleaned carburetor and cleaned the gas tank (Gas tank might have few drops of water) and put everything back. After that I changed the spark plug and then changed the engine oil and found this water and oil mix issue.

Now, no luck to start, whenever I tried to start, just engine crank and then see white smoke from muffler.

Yesterday I also checked the radiator, and it was completely empty and I when I touched the coolant (a drop in the cap), it like engine oil.

Also when I opened the oil filter I saw the green coolant water in it.

I also checked the drained oil in pan and saw dark green thick stuff in bottom.

Last night I added fuel treatment in the tank and today I tried to start again and after few try it started and last 10 min during this time all white smoke and then shut off its self and after no luck to start again. I also checked the engine oil, now it’s like white milky oil.

Thanks

[DirtDemon]

Sounds like you need to pop that head off, my money is on the head gasket.

[swampcat07]

I totally agree with DD it is either the head gasket or the water pump o ring. Don't run it too much until you get the problem solved. I would use some cheap wet clutch safe oil to flush out the motor a few times before running it for good. For the first flush add a little sea foam. Just add the oil run it till it warms up and then drain. Check for the milky consistancy and then repeat until a oil change or so until it is gone.

The good news is that if it was coolant and not swamped then there should not be any debris (sand dirt mud) in the engine and your cylinder walls should be in good shape. I would however replace the rings in there becuase of the ATVs age.

[jfkkhi]

Hi DirtDemon & swampcat07.

I spoke to few mechanics about this problem and according to them the will charge around $300.00 fix this gasket issue. ($65.00 per hour labor) and additional work required more money.

Question,

Can I just fix the gasket so no oil and water mix and then just flush the engine and use it (I just need to clean snow from my driveway).

Thanks

[DirtDemon]

If you get a service manual and the necessary parts, you can save yourself a couple hundred $$. If you have a decent mechanical inclination you should be alright. If you do perform the work yourself, check your valves and adjust if necessary, always best to make the most of a situation. I myself wouldn't think twice about it, there is no way I would pay someone $65 per hour to work on my quads. However, if you aren't very handy with a wrench, then maybe you would be better leaving it to someone who knows their way around an engine. It's just comes down to how comfortable you are working on engines.

[jfkkhi]

Hi All,

Thanks DirtDemon for your advice.

I have all the tools but don't know what to look for or what to do to fix this problem.

Ordered the service and gasket set and will work on it and will update you all with pictures.

Thanks

[DirtDemon]

When you get the head off, it should be fairly obvious if the gasket is the probelm. Let us know what you find, we will be glad to help you get this done. Just make sure to follow the directions to a "T" when you are removing and re-torquing the head. You will also want to check the bottom of the head and top of the cylinder to make sure there hasn't been any warpage.

Edited December 29, 2010 by DirtDemon

[jfkkhi]

Hi All,

Finally I opened the Cylinder Head Assembly and very surprised.

All the part are like new (P 1) and no sigh of water I just saw only clean engine oil (P 2). So I didn’t go any further to change the gas kit.

Then opened the Water Body and noticed that all the plastic seals are almost gone. So, its look like that water got inside the engine from here.

I have few questions.

1, Should I need to go all the way to replace HeadGaskit (I want to avoid this as much as possible, if it’s not required)

2, After the new water seals in water pump, should I just open the bottom pan and flush the engine, will it be good enough?

Thanks

[DirtDemon]

You could try to re-use the head gasket, I don't recommend it though. If you have the thing apart, you might as well just replace the gasket now to be safe. I know it would save you about $40 to re-use the old one, but the last thing you want is to have to take it apart again. As far as flushing the motor, I would buy enough of the cheapest oil you can find to fill your motor twice, run the motor until it gets warm, then drain the oil, and repeat the process again. Hopefully this will get all the water out of the motor. When you feel confident that your motor is water free, fill it with whatever oil you plan to run in your machine and put a new oil filter in it. I must apologize, I should have suggested that you check the water pump seals, I have seen that happen enough times before, I should have known to tell you that. The white smoke thing sent me my mind on a one way track to the head gasket. The white smoke could have just been the water in the oil pushing past the rings and burning in the cylinder that way. I am just glad you didn't waste money on mechanic labor to find out we had steered you in the wrong direction. Good luck.

[swampcat07]

DD had good advice. I know it may not be required, but when I get the cheap oil to flush I make sure it is still wet clutch safe. I change the oil a few times and also change the filter. Using a cheap oil filter first and then after flushing I put the good one on.

It might seem like alot of work and money now but the feeling of reliability out in the woods is worth it.

[jfkkhi]

Hi All,

Thanks dirtdemon & swampcat07.

I only opened the value cover and at that point when I noticed no water and just oil then I didn’t go any further. Even thought I got the new gasket but I guess I just got scared to open the chain and all other things.

Anyway after the complete carburetor clean up, new plug, new air filter and new battery now I just need to press the start button and it runs like a brand new.

Regarding the oil in engine, after fixing the water body I changed the cold engine oil and pour new oil with new filter.

1, Now the oil is like haze light green, so I think I will need to keep changing.

2, The coolant is on the same level is I pour after the water body change, so it seems like it’s not leaking any more, but when I open the radiator cap with engine start, I don’t see any flow movement in water and the water pipes are kind of soft.

Thanks

[swampcat07]

If the oil looks green I would keep changing it until there is no green or milky look to it. A few bucks now will save lots of cash later.

I am glad to hear that you fixed the problem.

Also even with the coolant full you will not see it circulate until the engine is up to temp and the thermostat opens. Even then it is hard to tell but if you rev the engine and get the rpms on the water pump up then sometimes you can see the flow with the rad cap off. I would also recheck the fluid level after you bring the engine up to temp and run it for a while.