90's King Quad 300 resurrection.

[JustRandy]

12 hours ago, Jim Denton said:

Just like the 250S cam. That, with some carb mods really wakes the old EVO up. Looking forward to this build. I'll be talking with these guys for a carb kit, I used their kit on thlasy EVO I built. More grunts always a good thing.

That cam doesn't lose anything on the bottom end.   I tried 3 cams in one day right after each other so I could really tell.  I did donuts continuously (got really dizzy lol) in order to evaluate how low the rpms could go and still throw dirt.  The 250S cam could pull a higher gear than the 230S and one of the 4x4 cams.  The 250 cam could go higher and lower than the other cams.  So I thought "well wtf is the 4x4 cam for then?"

I have the specs for the cams written down somewhere.  I'll try to find them and post them when I get some time.

12 hours ago, Jim Denton said:

And as to eggs, had to switch from tractor supply feed to try and get them laying again. If you want to go down a conspiracy rat hole, research that a bit.

I don't know much about chickens but I've had ducks and geese for 10 years and had to switch from Dumour to Purina because a duck laid an egg with no shell.  Haven't had problems since switching to Purina.

I recently got 1 chicken hen and it laid 7 eggs before stopping for the winter.  Then I was surprised to see it started laying again a week ago even though it's not really that warm yet.  I have no clue as to why.  I don't use lights or heaters.

But I feed all my birds a mix of dog food, cracked corn, and layer feed pellets.  They like the dog food best.  The backyard chickens forum people fight with me about feeding them dogfood but I've been doing it since 2014 and all my birds look young still.  My philosophy is animals know best what is good for them.  The forum people don't like hearing that.

35 minutes ago, Jim Denton said:

OK Quadrunner motor just sounds yucky turning it by hand.

I always pull a side cover off so I can rock the crankshaft back n forth by hand looking for any slop in the big end rod bearing.  If there is any slop there the motor is junk.  You'd have to split the case and send the crank off to be split and new rod installed and welded.  It's not worth it.

Me and a buddy learned our lesson about buying a cheap quad to fix up and ended up having a bad rod bearing.  We fixed it up and sold it cheap just to get our money back but we didn't feel good about it.  Now if any quad is questionable I always check the rod bearings first thing.

[Jim Denton]

3 minutes ago, JustRandy said:

That cam doesn't lose anything on the bottom end.   I tried 3 cams in one day right after each other so I could really tell.  I did donuts continuously (got really dizzy lol) in order to evaluate how low the rpms could go and still throw dirt.  The 250S cam could pull a higher gear than the 230S and one of the 4x4 cams.  The 250 cam could go higher and lower than the other cams.  So I thought "well wtf is the 4x4 cam for then?"

I have the specs for the cams written down somewhere.  I'll try to find them and post them when I get some time.

I don't know much about chickens but I've had ducks and geese for 10 years and had to switch from Dumour to Purina because a duck laid an egg with no shell.  Haven't had problems since switching to Purina.

I recently got 1 chicken hen and it laid 7 eggs before stopping for the winter.  Then I was surprised to see it started laying again a week ago even though it's not really that warm yet.  I have no clue as to why.  I don't use lights or heaters.

But I feed all my birds a mix of dog food, cracked corn, and layer feed pellets.  They like the dog food best.  The backyard chickens forum people fight with me about feeding them dogfood but I've been doing it since 2014 and all my birds look young still.  My philosophy is animals know best what is good for them.  The forum people don't like hearing that.

I always pull a side cover off so I can rock the crankshaft back n forth by hand looking for any slop in the big end rod bearing.  If there is any slop there the motor is junk.  You'd have to split the case and send the crank off to be split and new rod installed and welded.  It's not worth it.

Me and a buddy learned our lesson about buying a cheap quad to fix up and ended up having a bad rod bearing.  We fixed it up and sold it cheap just to get our money back but we didn't feel good about it.  Now if any quad is questionable I always check the rod bearings first thing.

The length of daylight has a lot to do with the egg thang as well. 4 hen fruit today. I don't know why but im glad to see them start earning thier feed. I'm not hung on the cam specs, just seeing the difference is enough for me. 😀 I've not spent a penny yet  so... A lotta looking and checking coming up. At least now I can get to them and move them by myself. At some point they went with bigger newer Quads. Eigers or King Quads and the old ones just got sat aside. The local Suzuki dealer did most of the maintenance so hopefully I'm moving forward. 

[JustRandy]

A lot of people use lights and heaters so I thought it had something to do with temperature but it seems to me more to do with with day length like the trees and flowers that are blooming already.  And the geese always lay in January when it's the coldest.  I've hatched a couple geese before.  Temperature controls what sex they are.

[Mech]

" If there is any slop there the motor is junk.  You'd have to split the case and send the crank off to be split and new rod installed and welded.  It's not worth it.".

They aren't that bad..  The rod kit is often about the same price as a piston, and they are easy to rebuild, it doesn't take much at all, a set of centers is the main thing, to align the crank when you assemble it. My sons used to overhaul cranks by themselves when they were thirteen, using my vices to press them because they found it too awkward to hold the puller, and pressing plate, all at the same time..  They broke two of my vices doing that.. little buggers.

[JustRandy]

15 minutes ago, Mech said:

" If there is any slop there the motor is junk.  You'd have to split the case and send the crank off to be split and new rod installed and welded.  It's not worth it.".

They aren't that bad..  The rod kit is often about the same price as a piston, and they are easy to rebuild, it doesn't take much at all, a set of centers is the main thing, to align the crank when you assemble it. My sons used to overhaul cranks by themselves when they were thirteen, using my vices to press them because they found it too awkward to hold the puller, and pressing plate, all at the same time..  They broke two of my vices doing that.. little buggers.

That's interesting.  Thanks.  I don't know much about it.  Just going off what Vince at Vince Cycles told me.  http://www.mrcrankshaft.com/

I was going to send my crank to him for a longer rod and welding.  He said if the engine is revving and the wheels hit something solid the crank twists on the pressed-in bearing which causes the weird vibrations I had, so to prevent that he welds them in place.  Right after that I upgraded to the 250S engine and never pursued it.

But splitting the case is more than most people want to do, then having to split the crank and press it back together is often more work than what a quad is worth.  I'd do it for a something I was racing or something special like that, but not something to flip for money.

[Mech]

Wheels hit solid things all the time..  I think Vince is having you on. If a gear broke and the gearbox locked up maybe.. but a wheel.. Pffff..

Anyway, when I was young and not very careful I put a crank together and didn't align it carefully enough... you know what happened..  It vibrated for about three seconds then started to get smoother and smoother..  My sons have done the same.. After a few revs they are as good as gold.. and go for years.. Weird aye ?  But then I wouldn't have been building race engines like you.. I just overhaul them. 

About the minimum you need to do one is some way of pressing them apart, I use a thick disk of steel with a slot in it, and a hydraulic puller, then V blocks or a set of centers, and some sort of dial gauge that reads thou.. A bit of angle iron to align them as you start to press the second half on and then learning how hard to tap them to align them..  basic hand skills. Seriously, a kid can do it..  

[JustRandy]

I don't have enough experience with cranks to judge what you're saying but Vince is MrCrankshaft and rebuilding cranks is his bread n butter.  And what he says makes sense and explains the vibration that kept my motor mounts coming loose.  And if cranks will naturally realign themselves then why do they weld cranks?

It seems plausible to me that if one side of the crank suddenly stops from a shock through the driveline then the other side could twist around the pin.  And it doesn't seem plausible that the two sides would naturally realign themselves back into balance unless the fit were too loose in the first place.  Because if it took a big shock to move it out of balance then merely revving wouldn't be expected to fix it.

I just guessing but maybe your method of splitting the crank causes the holes to wallow out leaving the pin loose enough for the crank to balance itself.  But if that is true then any shock would knock it out of balance.  The back n forth in and out of balance would wear the crank pin and holes.  Maybe that setup is good enough to ride around on for years with minimal driveline shocks, but maybe not for hard riding on rocky mountain trails.

[Jim Denton]

Yall have a lot more knowledge about the subject than I do. The only crankshaft experience I have is with solid cranks. Now play nice fellas. I've yet to have split a case. Don't really want to start with one of these 3 foot long puppies. I will if I have to though. Probably will with the Quadrunner just to give it a go, knowing it won't be going back together. Then I can sell all the parts.

[Mech]

The gearboxes are simple too..  Most manufacturers design their gearboxes these days so it's almost impossible to get them wrong.

All specialists tell people that they need their help, and that there are dangers involved, and that paying more and getting them to double up on things is the premium way of doing it..  There is a lot of bullshit and  pandering to people's vanity involved in a lot of it...  I've seen it and been inside it..  It's why I became self employed..  I always advocate that people should have a go at fixing things themselves. I've always been willing and happy to give my time to anyone that wanted to have a go themselves. In the mechanical field, there's nothing that somebody else can do that we can't do with training and care.

[JustRandy]

I bought a basket of internal parts for a 230 back in 2007 ish with the intention to replace the 4th gear, but ended up replacing the 230 with a 250 engine instead, and the 250 already has the 4th gear fixed.  That was the same time I was going to send the crank to Vince.  After 15 years there's no hope that engine will ever go back together lol.  But I'm sure I still have the crank.  I could see how tight the fit is.  It's just hard to imagine that it could balance itself.

I understand that people upsell themselves to make money but I talked to Vince 2 hours and didn't get that impression.  He seemed about like Mech: a dude that just wanted to help people.  You could probably call him now and see what he has to say about all this.

But regardless I'm not going to go to all the trouble to pull an engine, split the case, split the crank and buy all the parts to replace a rod bearing.  And if the rod bearing is shot then other things are probably worn too.  If the rod bearing is shot then the whole quad is a money pit.  That was the main point of all this.

Alternatively if I'm building a racer then I would send the crank off anyway just to be sure it's done right.  It doesn't cost that much.  I think it's only $50 plus the parts and shipping.

[Mech]

Yeah well I'm a mechanic and I manage to overhaul things for an economical price for people..  My customers don't think it's a waste..

I don't like the idea of scrapping things just to go buy a new one..

[Jim Denton]

Do I have to pull this car over you two? Don't make me stop!

[Jim Denton]

King Quad ready for a bath. A couple of hours work. So far I think I might have a good one. It spins in neutral and first. Front diff shifts and spins. So far no crazy noises. 

[JustRandy]

2 hours ago, Mech said:

I'm a mechanic and I manage to overhaul things for an economical price for people..  My customers don't think it's a waste..

I'm not sure what constitutes a mechanic if facts are merely opinions.  Anyone can identify as a mechanic and take people's money.  Mechanics and professionals in general typically have the reputation of politicians for being unable to fix issues while charging way too much.

I myself have fixed things the wrong way and have been paid and celebrated for fixing it, but it was still wrong.  Just because I get paid and have happy customers doesn't mean I'm a good mechanic.  Being a good mechanic is an on-going learning process in my opinion.  Anyone who thinks they know it all is to be avoided.  Times change and accepted practices change and you have to keep up with changes.

I couldn't tell you how many times I lapped a new valve into an old seat and everyone thought I was a great mechanic.  Then a year or so later the failure was blamed on a bad air filter or something.  No one ever questioned my workmanship even though they should have.  How were they supposed to know?  It takes a good mechanic to know a bad one.

2 hours ago, Mech said:

I don't like the idea of scrapping things just to go buy a new one..

That quad that we flipped we just broke even on cost just to get rid of it.  But there would have been no way anyone would have paid the necessary money to have us fix it right by replacing that rod bearing.  That job would not have been worth it.  So it's better to scrap the quad and start with something else.

But generally speaking I'd prefer to fix old things than buy new because usually the new things are crappy quality.  It just depends on what we're talking about.

2 hours ago, Jim Denton said:

Do I have to pull this car over you two? Don't make me stop!

We're just talking I think.  Pretty civil so far.

2 hours ago, Jim Denton said:

King Quad ready for a bath. A couple of hours work. So far I think I might have a good one. It spins in neutral and first. Front diff shifts and spins. So far no crazy noises. 

That's good news.  They are fairly durable machines.  The weak links are the intake valve and regulator.  And speedo cable.

There are mods you can do to get the front diff locked in any range.  I forgot how but I know it's possible.  Also a mod to start in any gear.

[JustRandy]

Just thought I'd mention that I used those little buffing wheels to clean my fishing reel.  It wouldn't cast.  I tried oiling it and replacing the line but still wouldn't cast.  Then I noticed little worn spots that was snagging the line so I hit them with the buffing wheel and it casts like new.

[Jim Denton]

Yeah I dig the little wheels and they'd fit right in with the rest of my polishing stuff. As to fixing my own stuff, no way can I afford a shop to do much of anything. I  just pulled a steering sector out of a 97 Silverado I bought as a parts truck. It had 99 Suburban written on it by the junkyard that sold it last, it's got more play in it than an elementary school playground. Now I can buy a kit and attempt the rebuild myself or go for a reconditioned, or new one. Kits like $60. Rebuilt $150 to $225. New 5 or 600. My garage is the yard, so I borrow floor space in my neighbors heated, concrete floored shop. It'll be reconditioned for me. I figure I could handle the rebuild but.. Only ride at the moment as Mama's Suburban is acting stupid. And I need it done in a day. Maybe this time I'll get the steering wheel pointed straight. Blasted shaft was a b....  I ain't splitting anything, if I can't get 1 of these 4 to act right, at least until warmer weather. The high mile machine is acting nice so far. Has what feels like good compression,  rear wheels spin in first. Front wheels spin in 4wd. I can put it in all 3 ranges. Front diff spins in 4wd and first gear. No ugly sounds, case had nice black oil. Rear brake works, front brakes frozen, so what. Throttle and choke don't move, and the carb slide might be stuck. No problems, I'll finagle it. And if I get stuck I know y'all have my back.

Jim

[Jim Denton]

Oh and yeah already did the locker mod on the Quadrunner shifter assembly, super easy, and the start in any gear thing is easy peasy as well. I'll be adding some extra relays and switches for the planned lighting upgrade. Like a fella on another site said I'm going to look like a UFO going through the woods at night.

[JustRandy]

I have 6 lights on the front and one on the back.  It lights up the entire woods lol.  Oh and a dashlight.  Definitely a UFO lol

The front brakes ain't the best but they help slow it down some.

I think I remember rebuilding a steering box before.  Maybe the hardest part was getting the gunk off it lol.  I'd go the $60 route.  I'm sure you can handle it.  Autozone has online service manuals.

I've always wanted a suburban.  One of these days maybe.

 

[Jim Denton]

If it was my shop yeah I'd do it to. It doesn't look hard. Getting the 22 balls back in is the finicky part. Tge sub is an 05 air ride LT, fully loaded. Full time all wheel drive, with an LSD rear. Rides and drives like a Cadillac. Snow, mountains? Who cares let's go. Sure couldn't pay for the 90k new replacement. 

The only damage, and the repair is holding, after over 10,000 miles rolling down 91 acres of mountain with a 1000' drop over 36 trails. Put to work in 95 brand new. Amazing durability if you ask me. Got all the bolts out of the skid plates, patience grasshopper.

[JustRandy]

Yep 4wd suburban is exactly what I wanted.  Been talking about it for years.  Not sure how important it is now though.  Have to see where the next chapter of life goes.

That hole in the frame in the picture is where I put the funnel to add oil to the engine.  Just take the intake valve cap off and put the funnel there.

[Jim Denton]

Well the Quadrunner took longer to break down than I thought. It's in pieces and on the shelf. The King Quad is ready to go get a bath, pulled the front brake shoes so it rolls easy. I'm digging this old girl. No slop in the driveline. Pull and clean the carb and I'll see what happens. 

[Gwbarm]

Good Job !  Thats a lot of work. You are taking stripping down to the next level.

[JustRandy]

Pretty impressive you got it down to the frame like that.  I remember having trouble getting the gas tank out.  I think I had to cut it out.  The rest of the quad I turned into a grader.  Put a trailer hitch and blade under it.  Works good for smoothing out trails.

[Jim Denton]

I tried to pull the tank to clean it out at first, nope, no way, no how. Take the motor out and it falls out. I've been kicking around the idea of a trail trailer for awhile. The front end might wind up chopped apart and transformed. 

[JustRandy]

You could make a lot of trailers with all those quads.  I had a 2 car train going for a while.  A little hard to backup though.

I made a jig to hook to a trailer ball and pull another atv by the a-arms.  That hooks to the camping trailer so I can take a sport quad camping with me.  It's a bit like a train.

[Gwbarm]

That should make a nice small trailer and its long enough it should be easy to back up, the last one I bought was so short you had trouble backing it up ,that would be an interesting project, 2 wheel or 4 wheel. 

[Jim Denton]

Randy I'd have liked to see that train go by. Gman I'm not sure. It'll be used to tote firewood of the hills so maybe 4 wheel is the best idea. Make a wagon tounge, hunh. Good idea. It'll be a dumper either way. I've a engine hoist lift cylinder I think I can use.

[Gwbarm]

Good choice I have a 4 wheel that I am using now to haul stuff around with mine I really like it 

[Kibblesnbits]

I'm jealous you got 4, they are unstoppable with good tires and the locking diff really comes in clutch sometimes. Those fairings don't look that bad, im pretty shure mine went off a cliff and down a raven, everything is bent, whole main frame has a slight twist, all suspension is shot, almost as much zipties and gorilla tape as there is plastic and it smokes like that's its MO, cylinders off getting honed at the moment. 4 will certainly keep you busy but by the last one you're gunna run thru that thing like clockwork lol

[JustRandy]

I'm jealous he has 4 too.  I'd like to have one setup for the trails and one setup for work.