2006 trx350te Honda rancher 350 es clutch plates

[Gwbarm]

Did this just happen when you torqued everything down, seems like it might be tightened against the inner case, did all the washers and spacers get back in the right position.

[Ejwill]

Yes, when I thought I was ready to assemble it. Everything is on the change clutch the sleeve / bushing, the housing and big washer, the plate and the friction plates and metal plates washer x2 then nut. I’m sure all of that is in there. Oh and the seat and cupped spring around the clutch center. 

[kp3004x4]

Sounds to me like bushing is biding somewhere at cover. Do you have washer before bushing and after?? Sounds like biding hard at this point could be around but seems by post

[Mech]

If it turns the wheels when it's in neutral, but locks up when in gear, then it is one of the clutches, and if the shift clutch won't turn nice, then it's in the shift clutch almost surely, or, very unlikely, the centrifugal is locked up somehow.

Check the centrifugal and crank turns without the shift clutch turning, then take it off and check the shift is what  is binding, then take that off again. The problem will be in the assembly of the shift clutch and it's sleeve etc.

When you are putting it back together don't torque things up, just tighten them hand tight with a 3/8 ratchet. Those threads are probably getting at risk by now and I'd probably only do them up to 70LbFt in the final assembly if it was me.

Tightening with a 3/8 will be tight enough to reveal any binding of that shift clutch, and if there is any binding then take it apart again and redo it.

The shift lever thing might be because the circlip isn't on there holding the shift mechanism on the shaft. It's when that shaft moves backwards that you were having trouble with it before and it will almost certainly be the same thing now, it needs to be forwards and it's the circlip that does that.

When you have the shift clutch off inspect every part5 very carefully, with a magnifying glass if necessary looking for signs of where they used to fit and rub together, and any signs of where they have been binding now. Check the diameter of the wear marks on the washers and check what they run against that has that diameter. Don't fit a washer against anything that doesn't match the old wear marks.

Actually... When you are undoing the shift clutch, just undo the nut one turn and see if that fixes the problem as a first step, that will confirm it is in the clutch assembly order.

[Ejwill]

Ok, I loosened the change clutch lock nut and as you thought the tires would turn backward but really hard forward, you explained this earlier. I have taken the change clutch apart and checked the manual it says there’s one friction plate that has a wider diameter. It shows the difference between them as a wider friction pad area. The only different one I have had a smaller pad area and a larger opening that goes around the clutch center. So I’m a little confused about the difference in them. ‘A’ is the regular one, five of them. ‘B’ is the narrow one the only different one. But as you can see the pad area on B is smaller not larger as the manual shows. I guess I’m trying to see if ‘B’ is the one that goes on last even though it doesn’t look like the one in the manual. ‘C’ is showing the width difference in it and the other five. The second photo is from the clunker manual showing a wider pad area that it says should go on last . I don’t have one that is wider than the others just one that has a smaller pad area. I’m guessing the smaller with one in the photo of what I have goes on first, but I don’t have a wider on that would go on last. I went ahead and assembled the change clutch with the narrow pad one on first, if it’s wrong I’ll change it. Will put it on and not torque it but about 70 ft/lbs, as well as the centrifugal clutch. I’ll check to see if the wheels turn this time. I can always take it apart again.

 

[Mech]

The plate with the bigger inner center diameter will be to go over the hub center which will have a flange on it, probably on it's inner end I'd think.. Or it might be the pressure plate on the outside that has a flange.. It's fairly common. Look for where it needs the bigger inner diameter.

And don't tighten the nut at all tight, just 3/8 ratchet tight(25ftlb) till you have tested it all works right..

[Mech]

Yeah the manual says the bigger diameter/narrow faced one goes on last..  And it will be to fit over the spring huh ?

[Ejwill]

Well , I got it back together again. Everything is working so far still need to do a few things. Oil hoses, shift motor and gears, angle sensor,put gas tank back on, connect gas hose and hope it still cranks. It should haven’t changed anything with that. I took the front cover off to accesse everything easier. Will try to see if it works tomorrow. Got to put the left handle bar controller on bought a new one. Man I hope it works. Will let y’all know what happens. Thaknks for y’all’s help no matter what happens.

[Gwbarm]

Thats good, sounds like you are almost there, good luck!

[Mech]

Yup, you let us know.. We might have to sort the electric shift yet but hopefully something you have done in there that's got the manual shift working will have solved that too..

I'm feeling confident....

[Ejwill]

Oh well, guess you know what that means. I got everything on and it cranked right up, buuut it just sat there I shifted out of neutral to first and nothing. I even jacked it back up, cranked it up shifted to what I’m sure would be first and the tires did not move. I couldn’t shift in anything but first to neutral and back to first no other gears. I’m about ready to tap out. I know y’all are. I had ordered a harness that is supposed to bypass all the systems with the es system. When it didn’t work I put it on and it would shift from neutral to first with the buttons on the controls, but no further than first and back to neutral.

[Mech]

Is the dash gear indicator flashing at you ?

Have you tried getting the dash to flash the trouble codes to you ? There's a procedure described in the manual.

That's what you need to do now. The process is check the dash for codes, and if it isn't flashing at you, you ask it for the codes.. that checks the computer is working. Then or before really, you check all the fuses and battery voltage running and check the shift buttons do something, which you've already done.

Once you know whether the computer is working, or trying to work, then you choose what to do next..

In the manual there's a section in the index called "electric shift program". You'll find the general outline and how to ask for trouble codes on the dash in the first few pages of that section. If it's working and there's no codes, then it narrows down the possible problems.

[Ejwill]

I can’t see a thing on that dash it’s old weathered and impossible to see anything on. I tried cleaning it but it’s in too bad of shape. Didn’t what to put that much into it if the atv wasn’t going to work. I’ll try to do it again tomorrow, they sell new covers but I don’t see a way to remove the old one.

[Ejwill]

Reply to my own post. I worked with the shifting again this morning. I don’t know if I can even explain what it’s doing. As I said I put the bypass harness on it, and it will shift from neutral to first and back to neutral. If I use the manual shifter along with it I can shift up to fifth. I have to press the up button then take the manual shifter and back it up a little, I can feel a slight click. Then press the up button and it goes into the next gear I can do this all the way to what I think is fifth gear, then do it the same way back down to neutral. So far the tires will not move, it’s still jacked up so I can turn the tires if need be to make it shift to the next gear. The buttons work with help from the manual shifter, slightly backing the gear up just a little then it will go to next gear up or down again the tires still do not turn when it feels as though it is in gear.

[Mech]

It sounds like a weak motor..  I'll have a read.

And the gearboxes are always like that.. hard to get to move up or down if they aren't running or rolling.

[Mech]

Well there's about twelve pages of test procedure next to check the dash, switches, computer, and wiring, then it says the motor's not going..  Check the motor.

There's another four pages of test procedure for that then they say undo the two small screws and pull the shift motor out and use a battery on it. Then, if it's not the motor look at the reduction gears, which are in another cover on the big cover, and they come out easy too.

So the switches and all are working and trying to get the shift to move so it's a pretty sure bet it's the shift motor. And in side it there will probably be stuck or worn out brushes. Starter brushes and probably those brushes, come on a metal plate with new springs and everything on it and it just screws in. They're are about $28 kiwi bucks.

Two or three bolts and the shift motor pulls out.

[Gwbarm]

Just trying to understand you can get it to go into all the gears with assist from the foot shifter , but the wheels will not move, meaning they are stuck or wont move with the engine running in gear. Now i have confused myself. If you crank it up put it in gear will the wheels move.

[Mech]

I think the message is that with a bit of foot assistance the electric shift does it's job, and can be felt assisting the manual shift as well, which is good..  And it's in the gears because the wheels have resistance..

 

I took it to be all good.. except for a weak motor.

[Gwbarm]

Thanks for that Mech, EJ i hope you are almost there, you have worked so hard on it, thanks for keeping us informed on your progress.

[Ejwill]

Yeah, it’s two bolts on the motor. I replaced the motor it’s new, I checked it with the battery before putting it in. And it worked fine. I’ll check the reduction gears, because they are hard to get installed with the cover on could be one of the has slipped out of place. I guess that could have happened not sure. I replaced the motor because the fiber board that has two small screws holding it in the bottom of the motor mount was broken at each screw. Can’t rebuild it so I just replaced the whole thing. It shouldn’t take too long to check the gears. I’ve been reading the manual and it calls for grease on the gears, I didn’t have any so I put oil on them, the grease might be what makes the difference. When I check the installation I’ll put the grease on the gears. Hopefully that might be an easy fix. Thanks again.

[Gwbarm]

Hopefully the reduction gears has slipped out of place, grease is better on the gears but oil is fine for at least a test. Shouldnt have caused a problem

[Mech]

Ok, and the other big part of testing it all was the gear position switch which feeds back to the computer..  That's got a check list to make sure each set of contacts in it are working.

It still sounds though, since you can help the motor with the hand shift, and the motor helps the hand shift, that the motor's lacking grunt. So, if the gears are all in order, I'd check the power supply getting to the motor is adequate.

[Ejwill]

I think the gears are in place. The manual is confusing it shows the center gear turned upside down from the way I had to put it the big gear will not fit down inside the recessed area it has to go the opposite way. And the sector gear has to go under the center gear instead of on top as shown in the photo. This is a clymer manual page 181 photo 2A. Maybe this is the problem, but I can’t see how the center gear will fit the other way, and the shaft of the gear fit in the hole. I’ll take it apart again and make positive sure it will only fit one way. This could be a problem, I’ll see if I can straighten it out. I got the gears in as the manual shows, had it that way to start with. Still no tire rotation when I shift it in gear with the manual shifter. Don’t know, but what’s new about. Haven’t known much since we started but with y’all’s help I’ve picked up a lot I didn’t know, so thanks very much for the help. My middle grandson doesn’t want to go to college, so I told him to get a trade like welding, he could make good money, it’s just no easy work. I welded at a nuclear plant. It’s hot work. One area we had to wear ice vest to work in the room. And when you are dressed out and wearing a mask and welding hood , three pair of gloves it’s not very comfortable way to work. I feel like it's been that hot here working on this machine. Anyway I don’t know where to go next I’ll start with the trouble shooting pages I guess. Thanks again.

[Mech]

Here's the honda manual picture..  And see the shift lever with teeth on needs aligning.

output.pdf

[Mech]

And check that there's 12 volts at the two motor wires when you are pushing the button..  Check the voltage in both up and down modes. One way it will/should show 12v and in the other way it should show -12v.

[Mech]

In the manual it says you can run 12v into the motor in place..  I'd have thought that might try and wind the shift too far without the gear and angle sensors in place, but they don't seem to think so.. You could try that. I'd try it with the wheels off the ground and the engine running.. that will allow the gears to shift.

And.. are you sure about the tyres not turning ? Not at all when in gear ?  They should turn one way easy and try to rotate the engine the other way.. like they did when you first got it back together.

 

[Mech]

#131..  At that stage the wheels should have been turning easy one way, and trying to turn the engine the other way..

I'd assumed you meant the wheels had resistance to turning, which would mean it was going into gear.. but if the tyres really wouldn't turn, not even in a high gear, then there's still something happening wrong when you put the front cover on....

It the shaft the shift clutch is on is jambing against the front cover then the tyres won't turn in gear, and the shift will have trouble shifting up or down unless you rock the tyres to get the gears to turn enough to slip out of one gear and into the next..  Perhaps you need to recheck whether the tyres are totally locked when it's in gear..  We might be jumping the gun if there's still a problem inside the case.

[Mech]

In the picture here part #24 is 18mm, #25 is 27x40, #26 is 22x45x0.8, and #27 is 20mm

Do you think you could have got them muddled ?

[Mech]

Between #128 and #131 something has changed surely.. At #128 you thought it was all good.. right ? The cover was on.. Tyres turned in gear, gears changed manually..  At #131 the tyres are not turning.. 

If it really has locked the wheels when it's in gear then the cover needs to come off again. I put you wrong.. I thought you meant there was resistance to turning the wheels in #134, which was meaning it was getting the gears and not false neutrals..  Gw was onto it.. 

[Gwbarm]

Yeah cover off everything back apart, i would get a honda manual, i used to use haynes but they were kind of vague and covered too many years, and photos werent very good, but yours maybe good havent looked at it, lay everything out and put it back exactly like the diagram, im sure you did that, just a double check. While everything is off check also to make sure it is shifting from neutral, wheels turning, to gear, wheels not turning. Im hoping your problem is not there but doublechecking doesnt hurt.