2016 Presidential Election Discussion Thread

[Ajmboy]

Tonight is the first presidential debate and it should be a record breaker for viewing. Might as well have a mini poll here on QUADCRAZY to see how they stack up. Make your choice in the poll and feel free to comment in this topic. I'm going to pin this topic and keep it going through the elections in November. 

[davefrombc]

It will  be  interesting to see the results  of tomorrows  national  polls on how  they  did in the  "debate".  Trump  managed to be  Trump  again.

 I  must say  I  laughed at his  responses  and   must congratulate the  audience at the  debate  on their  restraint most of the time  when  reacting to  his  responses.

[Admin]

I think it was an interesting debate, both sides think their candidates won. I'm not sure any of them swayed the undecided voters.

[Ajmboy]

I think Donald Trump should have hit harder. Hillary baited him and he took it on many occasions. I think he was too concerned about looking like a bully. At the end of the day, all he needs to really lean on is change. For those that like where the country is today, they will vote Hillary. Those that are unhappy with something for whatever reason, will vote Trump.

[Garry]

Being from NZ, and having a totally outside view to the U.S. elections and looking at the choices...
You don't actually have anyone suitable with any leader qualities to elect...  
If Trump gets in... it will just prove to the world what the typical stereotype of Americans voters are...  (which is very unfortunate) Trump seems only driven by it being an accolade for himself, he doesn't seem to give a toss for the U.S.

End of the day its $$$ to Trump

But Clinton seems to be a bit of a twat in her own right.

My 2c for the day.

 

[LT80]

You are right Garry, it's usually a lesser of the 2 evils.

Watch "Mr. Smith goes to washington" Garry. It's a old movie that depicts American politics and how "the buddy system" works. Nothing has changed.

Trump is not a career politition and a brilliant business man. 2 things that America needs right now.

But I do think Trump gives a toss. More than Clinton IMO. He wants to keep and get back jobs, Clinton is happy with status quo. He also wants to get rid of illegals and secure the borders. Something that should have been done years ago.

Also he wants to repeal the affordable health care act, which has put thousands of ppl in unbelievable debt. We have to have health insurance, but the health carriers don't have to do procedures that might be needed and they don't have to give you the medications needed.

My favorite parts of the debate::

1) trump~ you've had 30 years to do things, why hasn't all this been done?  Not a exact quote but you get it.

2) trump~ I'll give you my tax returns if you give me the emails deleted. I hooted over that!

So vote Hillary if you want your guns taken away. And get ready for spanish to be the new national language. Isis will increase terrorism in the USA and we will be dealing with Yen soon. 

[davefrombc]

 

39 minutes ago, LT80 said:

 

So vote Hillary if you want your guns taken away. And get ready for spanish to be the new national language. Isis will increase terrorism in the USA and we will be dealing with Yen soon. 

I  hope a  lot of Trump  supporters   watched Frontline  tonight.  Just  maybe  their  perspective  on  Trump  and Clinton  will  change ..

Clinton  is  not  going to  "take your  guns away", nor  are the rest of those accusations  based in any  fact .

Trump is a pathological liar, and  narcissistic "circus  barker" totally incompetent  to  lead the  nation.

  If  you think the US  has troubles now ,  elect  Trump  and  you'll very  swiftly  learn   just how  bad it  can  get.  

Just  the opinion   of  someone  north of your  border that can't vote  in your election.

Here's  the  opinion  of an  Arizona newspaper  editorial  board that tells the  story of  Trump  much better  than  I  can :

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/editorial/2016/09/27/hillary-clinton-endorsement/91198668/

Pretty strong endorsement  of Clinton and rejection of Trump  by  a normally Conservative  GOP supporting  newspaper

[Ajmboy]

I think at the end on the day, people feel that with Hillary, we will get more of Obama, that the middle class working people aren't crazy about. Specifically around things like the affordable care act, security, immigration, and position on the world stage, etc.

Just to put medical into perspective, I have 2 kids...8 and 2. I work for a company that offers medical and the rates have gone up since Obamacare. When my 8 year old was born, cost us $200 out of pocket. My 2 year old was $6500 out of pocket because of the deductibles now. Regardless, I would pay anything for my children's well being but it puts it in perspective what Obama did to the middle class. Don't get me started on other regular medical fees. Give those who don't work cheaper medical on the backs of those who do is a crappy plan. That's socialism, leveling the playing field. I voted Obama the first time around and then Romney the second after these medical changes went into affect.

Also, when are they going to stop punishing people for being rich? Don't they realize that the rich create jobs? Small businesses can't in this environment, they can't survive paying for regulations like medical coverage. It's really bad what's happening. As government gets bigger, corporations have to get bigger as well to survive, which is why you see so much industry consolidation. Also, why are low cost retailers thriving and companies like Amazon killing industries? People's buying habits changed because of what they are paying out. Obama/Hillary, good if you don't want to work and live on the system, bad if you work and have money to pay for the system...

2 basic choices...Hillary/stay the same and Trump/change. That's what it will boil down to for most. Trump may not be the best candidate, but if you want change, he's your best choice. If you like it the way it is, vote Hillary.

 

[davefrombc]

What the  US needs to do  is  join the rest of the developed world and bring in  universal  health care  and get rid of the  "It's socialism" cries. The US has the most expensive  health care system in the world, and despite what   many want to  believe , it is  not the  best.  Our "socialist"   government  operated , one payer  system takes no  back seat to the  US ,  nor  do   the other  "socialist"  systems  of the US's  allies ...  Our system  is not free.  It  is paid for through the tax system , but it  is considerably less  costly to  families  and individuals than  your  system  is..... if you can  even  get  coverage for your have "pre-existing conditions"

Trump  would bring  change  to the  US  for sure........ but it  is not  change  you or the rest of the world would want to see.

Compare life in the  US  now  with it's failed  Reaganomics  tax  reductions for the rich, and  no incentives to  keep   American  dollars  invested in  American  business at home  with the  tax system  and  growth of the   1950's.  Effective taxes  many times higher than  now ,  coupled with real incentives  to  invest  in  business infrastructure  and charitable  donations  to  reduce those taxes  were  far  more effective than  the  grab and run  system  put in play  for the rich now.

Socialism  and  high  taxes  aren't  the  horrible  ogres  made  out  to  be  by the extreme right.......  if they  are implemented properly.

Edited September 28, 2016 by davefrombc

[Ajmboy]

Lots of good points in this thread, glad to see and read some different points of view! It's definitely and interesting presidential election...

I was upstate NY today driving around and saw lots of rural "farmy" areas, not one Clinton sign and about 5 "home made" Trump signs. I thought that was interesting, was going to take a picture. A little south where I am in NY, I would have to say it 4 signs (trump) to 1 (clinton) on the lawns. However, this is north of NYC where I think Hillary will get more votes to win the state.

 

[Ajmboy]

Trump is having a tough week...

[quadmaniac]

On 9/30/2016 at 7:49 AM, Ajmboy said:

Trump is having a tough week...

Yes he is, he always seems to blow up these things like the beauty queen controversy by "sticking to his guns" which I think just makes it worse. Latest polls show he dipped a bit after the debate.

[Admin]

 

Fox News Poll: Clinton ahead of Trump after debate, fear motivating both sides

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/30/fox-news-poll-clinton-ahead-trump-after-debate-fear-motivating-both-sides.html

[davefrombc]

If all the truth  about Trump, his business dealings  and treatment  of women were known I doubt even  his most  ardent followers  would  continue to  back  him....Maybe they would .. There  are a lot of  people refuse to  face reality  when it  conflicts with their  preconceptions and prejudices.

 We'll see if  Trump  actually  goes into the  second "debate".  There's a lot  of speculation he  may  bail  on the other  two  after  his performance in the first ,  and  the  list of proven  dirt on him that  can come up  in the next  and  last   ones.

Maybe  some  members would  like to  read this article from  USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/

I know  of  one company  a friend of mine worked  for that   was forced to go into  bankruptcy  because Trump  failed to  pay the full contracted  price  for the  electrical  and security  work done on one of his projects  in our  north  part of the  province.. The company overextended itself  to get the  job , relying  on what they'd  get at the end to  pay  for the  materials  and workers wages.  The real  profit for them , they  thought,  would  be  being  able to say they worked on a Trump  project. The  workers  were paid ,  but the company did not have the resources  to  fight  Trump in  court  to  recover  the  shorted  funds.... 

Tell  me  again  how  he'd  be  such a great  President.  It amazes  me   how so  many  people  can  blind themselves  to  fact when   the  circus  barker  makes the  noises they  want to  hear .

[quadmaniac]

While I don't agree with anyone getting stiffed, 3500 lawsuits over 3 decades that included him and his group of companies isn't as much as it sounds when you look at the scope of the things that are involved. Companies go through lawsuits annually. To put it in perspective, look at this list of the most lawsuits by company in 2009 and 2010. 

http://www.smsm.com/blogs-litigationblog,Most-sued-companies-in-America

For some companies it's just day to day business practice. 

[LT80]

davefrombc: the difference is, most don't know about trump being a bad person. The whole world knows how bad a person clinton is.

USA Today, the national enquirer of news papers.

[davefrombc]

The whole world knows how the  ERW  of the GOP  have been trying to demonize   Hillary  Clinton  for years  with lies and innuendo..  She  has yet to be  charged with any  offense despite the millions of taxpayers dollars  the GOP   has wasted on their never   ending  "investigations"..  I am  not a  Hillary  fan.  She tends to be  too secretive  in her  dealings ,  but   how  much of that  is due to the constant barrage  of lies  and half truths thrown  at  her  by the right?  She also  tends to  be  a little  more hawkish than I'd  like to  see.  Do  a search on the  Clinton  foundation to  see  what they  have  been doing with the funds  donated to  it ,  including funds donated  by the  Clintons themselves.... .and stay  away  from the  ERW  sites when  doing that search .. Look  in   mainstream  sites; and international  ones.

Then do  a search on Trump's  charity  and see if you  can find  money  he  and  his family actually  donated to  it themselves.. There  are some   investigations  into  just  what   has gone into  his  charity,  and what  it  has  paid for..  If you really dig  into  both   Clinton  and Trump,  you'll  find  Clinton the  far  better  candidate..

 If  I had  my  "druthers", I'd  like to  see  Colin Powell  run  for the   GOP.  I  can't  name  a Dem.  who  would be  more qualified  than  Hillary  , or  one  with a high enough profile to really have  a  chance..  Bernie  had  some  great  idea, but face it,  he  is too  far  left  to really get any support in  either the House or  senate to  push through any of his reforms.  He wants to  do too much  too fast.

If you really  dig into  Clinton  with an  unbiased eye  created  by the  old  GOP  maxim" if you tell  a  lie  often enough, they'll take it  as the truth" , you'll  find  she  is not the  ogre they  paint her to be. 

Really  look into  Trump  and  you  will  find   much to paint  him the  ogre  instead.

The  ERW  has been  feeding Americans  BS  for so many  years  they  think it  is  ice cream.

I  also  suggest  you  do  a search on world opinion of  Clinton  and Trump and you'll  very  quickly  learn  who  is deemed the bad  person  and who   is deemed to have been   given  a  bad  rap  over  the  last 20  years.

Edited October 2, 2016 by davefrombc
Added the suggestion to do a search on world opinion.

[Ajmboy]

This is one thing we didn't really have with Obama/McCain or Obama/Romney....deciding who is the worst person out of the two, it was mostly policy and ideas. crazy times we live in.

[davefrombc]

The Obama / McCain  and Obama / Romney campaigns  were a bit   more civil and   on issue,  although the ERW did  all they  could to  denigrate  Obama; not on issues  but on race  and  birth place. There  stated aim  was to  make  Obama  fail  at  all costs ,  and they  never let up  on that with their  constant  attacks  with lies and half truths..  I wonder  how  much  faster   and  deeper  the recovery  from  the near  depression at the end of the Bush years would have been  if the  GOP  had  really   made an effort to  work with  moderates in both parties to  fix  so  many of the  problems facing the  nation.  The   party  of  NO  has done nothing to  help  with the  recovery over the  8  years  of their obstruction rather than  compromise  and cooperation.

  I wish  this election was all about policy  issues and ideas too.  By  the way,  I am  Canadian,  but I live  only about  10  miles  north of the  BC / Wa. border and have friends and family in the  US.  What affects you  also affects  us  much more than  we'd like to  believe. Yes,  I  follow your  politics  as  well  as  our  own. Here , I would be  considered a  moderate ,  slightly to the  left of center  on  many  things ,  slightly to the right  on others.  Compared to what the  GOP  has become since the shift  began  in the  '60's  I would be  considered a flaming commie  liberal......  but then  anyone   left  of the hard right  gets that  tag from the  ERW now. In our   last election, the Conservatives  tried the   GOP  tactics  of attacking the  leaders  of the  other  parties rather than  really  staying on the  issues.  I'm   glad to  say   both  the  Liberals (who  won) and the  NDP both stayed  mainly on the  issues. In my opinion, the   Extreme Right Wing  of  our Conservatives helped the  Liberals in their  campaign  by unjustly attacking the opposition rather than  staying on issue. Canadians  as a whole do  not   like  that  style of politics.  We  have our extremes  of both the  right  and  left , but they  are not tolerated  as  much as the extremes  seem to  be  in so  much of the  US.

[Ajmboy]

This SNL of the debate is too funny. 

 

[quadmaniac]

That is one funny skit. Let's see how the VPs do tonight!

[Ajmboy]

Sunday debate predictions?

[specter]

I like Trump.  He gets it.  The biggest problem in America is government... way too much of it and way too much corruption.  People say we should join the rest of the world on healthcare and get universal, government run health care.  We already have that for the veterans.  It is a disaster.  Why copy the rest of the world when America had the best health care, best education, highest paying jobs, highest standard of living...in the world.  We had limited government.  Since the 60s government has grown like a cancer and changed all that.  We are no longer limited government.

Hillary is the epitome of what is wrong with America.  She is a lifetime politician.  She has been selling out Americans to enrich herself for 30 years now.  She is a criminal that should be prosecuted (for destroying evidence, her emails, in an investigation into her corruption).  

It is sad how many people want bigger government and less freedoms.  They have been conned into thinking the government makes our lives better.  What would make our lives much better is if we got to keep more of the money we earned and the companies can do the same.  

Edited October 8, 2016 by specter

[LT80]

** applause**

[davefrombc]

11 hours ago, specter said:

  Why copy the rest of the world when America had the best health care, best education, highest paying jobs, highest standard of living...in the world. 

I  have  news for you ..  You  have none  of that. The  US  does not  lead the world in any of those categories.

It does  lead the  world in the percentage of the population incarcerated...... and a  very  large  number  of those in prison  should  not be there.

I  invite  all  following this thread to search on each of those issues  to see where the  US  does stand in each category. 

[specter]

3 hours ago, davefrombc said:

I  have  news for you ..  You  have none  of that. The  US  does not  lead the world in any of those categories.

my point exactly.  we used to but not anymore.  

[davefrombc]

You  used to  have one of the  best; but it  has been  on a decline through successive  GOP  administrations  starting with  Reaganomics.  There was a bit of a reprieve with  Bill Clinton,  but  back  into   even  deeper  decline with the  Bush's,  especially  with the G.W. Bush administration...  The  recovery  under Obama  would likely  have  been  greater   if there  had been  any sort of  cooperation  by the  GOP,  but  they  were controlled  by  the  ERW  that swore  to try to  make him  fail  at  all  costs.... Clinton has survived  far too many  years  of  lies  and half truth  character  assassination attempts   by the  extreme right...She  will  make an  effective ,  but  maybe  not  spectacular  President.  Trump  is in it for  Trump, and only  Trump.. Electing him would  be   a disaster  such  as  you  couldn't  believe.  Hopefully with    the revelations finally  coming to  light  the  anti-Hillary lot  will  realize  she  id not the  ogre the  right  has painted her to  be, and come to the realization  just  what  an incompetent, lying  pig  Trump  really is. 

Again, I encourage    all  those following  this thread do  some searching of their  own on the real  status of the  US  in the  categories  mentioned, and  listen  to  international  opinions   on  the candidates  in this election  cycle ...  You  want  change ;  the  US  needs  change, but  not the  change  Trump would  bring.

[LT80]

 "I  have  news for you ..  You  have none  of that"

"Since the 60s government has grown like a cancer and changed all that"

I think you missed that part dave. As you see..we agree.

[Ajmboy]

Too funny, they are doing a great job adding some humor to this!

 

[joevee1446]

Ajmboy, I think the pole on this site says it all.  Trump at 80% and Clinton at 20%.

People want true change.  Career politicians are all the same, doesn't matter in they are democrat or republican.  They all promise the moon and deliver nothing. Prime example is the last mid-term elections, republicans promised to repeal Obamacare and reverse his executive orders, if elected.  After election they did nothing and refuse to even challenge Obama on anything.

I am one of the independent voters.  I did not vote for Obama in either elections and it will be a very long time before I vote for am established democrat or republican.