China virus

[JustRandy]

1 minute ago, Mech said:

Mate. You are really out of your depth here..

Checkmate is the word you're looking for.

Now maybe if you get another half dozen boosters you can get your cases up to 500 per day.

The trouble is you don't have enough needle tracks in your arm like real junkies.

[Mech]

Those figures are wrong.. not to mention the logic being applied to them..

 

[JustRandy]

Just now, Mech said:

Those figures are wrong.. not to mention the logic being applied to them..

 

Well where are the right figures?

[Mech]

I think stalemate is the right expression Randy..  You didn't loose.. Satisfied ?

[JustRandy]

2 minutes ago, Mech said:

I think stalemate is the right expression Randy..  You didn't loose.. Satisfied ?

The game isn't over until you supply the correct figures or concede my figures were correct.

So what % of kiwis are needle junkies?

[Mech]

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjl4Omb6Oz1AhU6k2YCHTewCNQYABAAGgJzbQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASEuRo3n17OwcNDWBVfJCsaoa8lQ&sig=AOD64_2mcKnR80dlEmTQczBDLY9WWUd-Ow&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwiL9uCb6Oz1AhWQTGwGHY5iBI4Q0Qx6BAgDEAE

Don't you ever get tired of having to say "I was wrong" ?

And the maths you were unthinkingly accepting from your source is flawed too Randy..  Didn't you see that ?

[JustRandy]

2 minutes ago, Mech said:

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjl4Omb6Oz1AhU6k2YCHTewCNQYABAAGgJzbQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASEuRo3n17OwcNDWBVfJCsaoa8lQ&sig=AOD64_2mcKnR80dlEmTQczBDLY9WWUd-Ow&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwiL9uCb6Oz1AhWQTGwGHY5iBI4Q0Qx6BAgDEAE

Don't you ever get tired of having to say "I was wrong" ?

Nope, I like being wrong.  I get to learn something.  But I can't be wrong unless you come off those figures.

[Mech]

"Come off those figures " ?

Yeah well with the number of things you get wrong you should be the best educated man in America by now.. Which is a worry !

Oh.. and those figures I just supplied.. we had a big boost campaign yesterday..  It will be higher now.

 

[JustRandy]

1 minute ago, Mech said:

"Come off those figures " ?

Yep, you seem to be hiding them.

I'm going to go eat and watch a movie and if I don't see the correct figures when I get back then I'll assume mine were correct and you're full of baloney.

[Mech]

Oh yeah.. Hidden like the threads in here, and the adverse reactions are being hidden.. all part of the big conspiracy.. 

 

There's nothing to be done about willful ignorance..

[Mech]

Could someone in America check that link works from over there for me please..  Perhaps the American govt's hiding things.. Them and google !!

Google NZ works just fine.. no censorship over here..  No lies from our govt.

 

[davefrombc]

1 hour ago, JustRandy said:

I think it depends on the distance.  At close range the 410 would blow a big hole in a person, but far enough away the balls will probably bounce off.  And I've had a lot of varmints walk away after being hit with a 22, but a 22 is just as deadly at close range as far.  A guy on youtube made a video showing the 22 is deadly as far away as one could hit a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

I did some comparisons with 410 and 22 of various speeds and hollow vs round and was surprised just what mess a little 410 will make.  A whole magazine of 22 will make a bunch of holes in water bottles but one shot with a 410 will blow the bottle into bits all over the lawn.  I couldn't see any difference in hollow vs round... velocity is what makes the difference.

But you're right, I don't want to be hit with either of them.

 

Hollow vs round nose doesn't seem to matter... it's more about the velocity.

It isn't the size of the initial  hole that does the damage in flesh. The  .22 round  solid can dive or  roam  around tearing flesh and blood vessels.  A solid makes a little more narrow channel  and can penetrate more . The  hollow point expands and can either break up  and create several  small channels or one of  a larger diameter but shorter. It isn't the shock  of the round that does the damage but the  hemorrhage .  A .410  with #4 birdshot would likely have to  be at very close range to  cause a lot of damage beyond some very painful shallow wounds. The individual  pellets have very little  mass to allow them  to  penetrate far at low velocity.  Put a slug in it  and it is very lethal out to  100 yards or more. The ability to  blow up  a plastic bottle at close range  really  is a poor comparison of the rounds relative to their lethality. Set that water bottle at 50  yards  and see how the shot shell  does against the .22LR  with a  hollow point.

 

[JustRandy]

2 hours ago, Mech said:

Could someone in America check that link works from over there for me please..  Perhaps the American govt's hiding things.. Them and google !!

Google NZ works just fine.. no censorship over here..  No lies from our govt.

What link?

Maybe I'm missing it but I read through page 9 and 10 twice and don't see a link from you.

Also you changed some your posts after I quoted them.  Maybe slow down a bit and not edit so much.

[JustRandy]

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

The  hollow point expands and can either break up  and create several  small channels or one of  a larger diameter but shorter.

What you say makes sense which is why I experimented to know for sure.  I took subsonic round noses and drilled hollow points in them and fired them into 2-liter bottles filled with water.  There wasn't any difference.

But when using hypersonic ammo (which only seems to come in hollows) there was a bit more of an exit hole, so it expanded a little.

The 410 just blew the bottle into small bits.  It took a while cleaning up the mess.

So to get a better idea I backed up a bit away from the bottle and the 410 riddled it with holes as if I'd shot a whole magazine of 22s into it.  One shot with a 410 made more holes the exact same size as a whole mag of 22s.

I think I still have the bottles.  I can post pics if you want.

Basically I just wanted to know if there was a difference in the round nose and hollows because the rounds don't jam as much as the hollows.

22 just doesn't have the velocity for the hollow point to make a difference.  22 magnum might be different.

1 hour ago, davefrombc said:

Set that water bottle at 50  yards  and see how the shot shell  does against the .22LR  with a  hollow point.

Yeah but I would never use a shotgun to shoot anything at 150ft unless it's a 12ga with 00 or slug.  I'm talking 40-50 ft which is what a mass shooter would do or a self defense situation.  50 - 100 ft is about where I shoot rabbit and squirrel.

The 22 will do the same damage near or far, but a shotgun only works close up, and the damage it does up close is worse than a 22.

Oh, I just remembered a buddy shot a coyote so we decided to experiment on the carcass.  I put some firewood behind it and shot it several times and the rounds went straight through without doing much damage.  It was hard to even find the holes in the fur.

There are slowmo videos on youtube showing rounds going through ballistic gel.  A slow round like a 38 special just goes through without doing much but a fast round like a 223 will cause a huge wound cavity.  The velocity makes the difference.

[Mech]

Can you find your own posts ?

"Nope, I like being wrong.  I get to learn something.  But I can't be wrong unless you come off those figures. ".

 

[JustRandy]

13 minutes ago, Mech said:

Can you find your own posts ?

What has finding my own posts have to do with a link you posted?

3 hours ago, Mech said:

Could someone in America check that link works from over there for me please.

Where is the link?

[davefrombc]

6 hours ago, JustRandy said:

50 - 100 ft is about where I shoot rabbit and squirrel.

The 22 will do the same damage near or far, but a shotgun only works close up, and the damage it does up close is worse than a 22.

Oh, I just remembered a buddy shot a coyote so we decided to experiment on the carcass.  I put some firewood behind it and shot it several times and the rounds went straight through without doing much damage.  It was hard to even find the holes in the fur.

There are slowmo videos on youtube showing rounds going through ballistic gel.  A slow round like a 38 special just goes through without doing much but a fast round like a 223 will cause a huge wound cavity.  The velocity makes the difference.

Even at 50 ft. the  #4 shot  would penetrate very little on flesh.  The  victim  would be very sore indeed but it would not be fatal or even  disabling.  Yup at point blank range the  #4 shot would do  a  lot of damage but it drops rapidly as range increases. Rounds "passing completely through"  do  a bunch of damage on the way.  The key  is  "Kinetic  energy". A  light  mass like a #4 pellet has very little at  .410  shot shell speeds and cannot penetrate   far.  Take that same pellet  and boost it to  meteor speeds and it would have as much energy as a .50 BMG or more.  A small  bullet travelling at  very  high speed  can do  as much or more damage  as a  large  bullet travelling  slow.  That's why a .223 / 5.56mm does so  much  damage with a relatively  light  slug.  You  need to do a little studying of physics and ballistics.

[Mech]

Well Randy , you are quoting my link in the post I suggested you find.

Perhaps it's been taken huh.. censored by this site, or the yanky anti-conspiracy department..

 

And you know your theory about how if everyone has weapons it keeps the peace, that it stops home invaders from even trying it ... do you think that North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Vietnam, should all have nuclear weapons.. to stop America's aggression, to keep America from invading them.  That would be the logical conclusion to come to wouldn't it ?

[Mech]

In theory high velocity has more energy in it, E=MC2 and all that, but I've found here shooting possoms,, a small tree climbing pest about the size of a big domestic cat, that if we hit them anywhere but a head shot, the high velocity 22 goes straight through and they take ages to drop out of the tree. If we use subsonic, it knocks them down, dead.

I don't really think there's much point comparing shotgun to rifle though, that's like comparing Nz's strategy, with America's er.. muddle, responding to the virus.

[Mech]

N.Z. went hard and went early for a reason.

We are a small remote country and we are very much at the mercy of international markets. We have been through a few international financial crashes in the last few years, and so our financial institutions had done extensive modeling studying how a financial crash spreads, how one institution going down effects two or more others. We.d figured out how long we had before the results of a financial crash overseas would take to get to us, and what the effects would be. When the virus appeared and started looking like being a epidemic or pandemic, we applied our modelling to the virus and realised straight away what would happen, and how we could prevent that happening. So we did what was necessary. It wasn't just some grab at control for controls own end, it wasn't some panic by Jacinda, it wasn't chance or luck, it was an intelligent and sensible application of knowledge.

Trump's bravado and the subsequent loss of opportunity meant your strategies were doomed to failure. It's not that masks do nothing, or that vaccine's don't work, we all know that vaccines are effective and an effective way to prevent epidemics.

If your theory Randy, that vaccines do nothing, and masks do nothing, is right, then how do you account for NZ's success in controlling the spread of this disease ?

[JustRandy]

4 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Even at 50 ft. the  #4 shot  would penetrate very little on flesh.  The  victim  would be very sore indeed but it would not be fatal or even  disabling.  Yup at point blank range the  #4 shot would do  a  lot of damage but it drops rapidly as range increases. Rounds "passing completely through"  do  a bunch of damage on the way.  The key  is  "Kinetic  energy". A  light  mass like a #4 pellet has very little at  .410  shot shell speeds and cannot penetrate   far.  Take that same pellet  and boost it to  meteor speeds and it would have as much energy as a .50 BMG or more.  A small  bullet travelling at  very  high speed  can do  as much or more damage  as a  large  bullet travelling  slow.  That's why a .223 / 5.56mm does so  much  damage with a relatively  light  slug.  You  need to do a little studying of physics and ballistics.

I agree.  I guess the question is at what distance will the #4 shot penetrate sufficiently to do more damage than the over-penetration of the 22.  It's too bad I didn't think of shooting that coyote with the 410, then I'd know.

[Mech]

We stopped the virus getting into the community here while we were waiting for a vaccine to be developed. We were ready to wait for years if need be. When the vaccine was developed, we said other countries could have(try) it first. We had committed to taking it, but we postponed our getting it in the interests of getting the virus under control in Europe. That wasn't just us being slow to order it, or purely philanthropic, it was another calculated move. Now we have the vaccine, and a good coverage, we are loosening the measures to lockdown and regulate our people.

Kiwi's are clever well educated people Randy. We have a good social cohesion. We work together for the common good, often of the world.

You can be as contemptuous as you like Randy, but the "facts", the results, speak for themselves.

[JustRandy]

35 minutes ago, Mech said:

Well Randy , you are quoting my link in the post I suggested you find.

Perhaps it's been taken huh.. censored by this site, or the yanky anti-conspiracy department..

I don't know, but I don't see a link posted by you.  I can post screenshots to prove it if you'd like.

Better yet, why don't you post a screenshot showing me where it is.

 

35 minutes ago, Mech said:

And you know your theory about how if everyone has weapons it keeps the peace, that it stops home invaders from even trying it ... do you think that North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Vietnam, should all have nuclear weapons.. to stop America's aggression, to keep America from invading them.  That would be the logical conclusion to come to wouldn't it ?

We generally don't let felons and those convicted of domestic violence to have arms even to deter crime, so your analogy doesn't fit.

[Mech]

Randy, you quoted my post with the link in it. The link is there in the quote. My post with the link in is right above your reply and quote.

And Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction, they weren't associated with 9/11, so who's the felons huh.

North Korea was never any threat to America, nor was North Vietnam.. 

When I was five my gran explained what "principles" were, and she told me one worthwhile principle to know and apply in life, and it was that all bullies are cowards, it's why they do what they do. Fear Randy is what makes people try to dominate.. 

[JustRandy]

30 minutes ago, Mech said:

In theory high velocity has more energy in it, E=MC2 and all that,

Kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2 which is why velocity is more important that mass.

30 minutes ago, Mech said:

but I've found here shooting possoms,, a small tree climbing pest about the size of a big domestic cat, that if we hit them anywhere but a head shot, the high velocity 22 goes straight through and they take ages to drop out of the tree. If we use subsonic, it knocks them down, dead.

More likely the 2 animals were hit differently because the high velocity would probably slow down closer to the speed of the subsonic by the time it hits the animal over any decent distance.  Resistance of air increases by the square of the velocity I think.

I suspect this because a 1260 fps hollow at 30 ft had the same exit hole as a 970 fps round nose, but at 10 ft the 1260 hollow split the back of the water bottle.  That indicates that the 1260 slows down quickly and the resultant speed isn't sufficient to cause the hollow to mushroom.  So the only way to produce any difference is to shoot within 10 ft.  That's why I prefer subsonic round noses.

[Mech]

It's feelings of inadequacy that makes people try to dominate other people, but it's a counter productive action and only leads to more realising of those inadequacies, with subsequent reactions as per "cognitive dissidence/human condition... 

Understand this Randy..  Learn through your mistakes.

 

[JustRandy]

8 minutes ago, Mech said:

Randy, you quoted my post with the link in it. The link is there in the quote. My post with the link in is right above your reply and quote.

Which post?  Give me a date/time or something to go by.  I swear I have not seen a link from you.  Do you think I'm playing games?

9 minutes ago, Mech said:

And Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction, they weren't associated with 9/11, so who's the felons huh.

Well then what are you trying to trap me in?  If I say they can have nukes then you'll admonish me for letting rogue states have nukes.   If I say they can't then you'll say they are innocent.  It's a game you know I can't win because you designed it that way to trap me.  I'm not going to play it.

If they are violent states then they can't. have nukes  If they aren't then they can.  Whether or not there are or aren't is up to someone else to decide because I don't have the info necessary.

[Mech]

It's a vicious circle, a downwards spiral into negativity. When we realise we are free, that we have free will to be the nice people we would like to be, that we are the masters of our own destiny, then we start on the upward spiral.

"realise" has two meanings, to come to understand, and to achieve, we need to do both.. both at once in the one action and sel-frevealing  understanding.. It's calling an epiphany..  No religious context to it. Theorising that we understand, is an act of faith.. Experiencing is knowing.

You Randy, are in denial.

[JustRandy]

42 minutes ago, Mech said:

When the virus appeared and started looking like being a epidemic or pandemic, we applied our modelling to the virus and realised straight away what would happen, and how we could prevent that happening.

44 minutes ago, Mech said:

If your theory Randy, that vaccines do nothing, and masks do nothing, is right, then how do you account for NZ's success in controlling the spread of this disease ?

What success?  The spread looks out of control to me.

[Mech]

I've told you which of your posts to search for..  It isn't important though Randy, it was just one of many things you have got wrong, that you have stated as fact, when it isn't.

You are out of your depth Randy. I don't need to trap you, you trap yourself. You are trapped, a slave, to your Ego. And Randy.. it's not a good look..  Sincerely my friend.. 

Go back, read my posts, all of them since I got here if you can be bothered, read your posts and replies.. Understand what it is I've been saying all the way through, see my reactions(or absence of) to your posts, see the way you react to everybody's posts..  I know it's the American way, but attacking everybody that doesn't agree with you isn't a proper way to be.. The world, and people, are better and deserve better than that.

There's nothing to be done for willful ignorance...  It's free will.. at it's worst.

I'm not religious Randy, but being a philosopher I've studied a lot of them..  They all address the subject of free will for a good reason, it's man's greatest asset, and the most abused and destructive.