Mech

Yes well Randy nothing in either of the manuals you quote say anything about not fully recharging the battery, or only operating them through a narrow range of mid-charge.. As with carbies, and diagnosing charging systems, or electrical faults in general, you prefer your opinions over the conventional wisdom and proven best practice.

Trojan batteries have their testing done by independent testers Randy, and to very high standards.. I've already suggested anyone interested look in their technical resources. You'd rather listen to a man that claims to have invented a radio transmitter that needed no power.. Each to his own. And.. what exactly is your field of expertise Randy.. Not radio obviously, or carburetors.

And just as a matter of interest Randy.. do you have a profession, a trade, some experience in any industry at all relevant to the things we discuss in here ? Other than politics that is.. Everyone's an expert and got an opinion about that.

And what did your phone manual say about charging and discharging ?

Lol.. I know some things well Randy.. It's my job. Do you have a smart phone Randy ? Did you read it's owners manual ? You've been here ten years I think you said Randy, and you've made five-hundred odd posts, and how many problems have you got to the bottom of ? I joined two years ago, and post anytime I have something useful to contribute.. I've been credited with five cures.. Compared to you Randy.. I am an expert. And I wouldn't waste my time disagreeing with what you say just because it's you saying it Randy. I disagree with posts I think are wrong and dangerously wrong.

Your cut-n-paste text contradicts the graph Randy.. You tell me I'm naive to believe what "big corporations", say, because according to you, they can lie, but you believe anything on the internet that supports your misguided opinions. It's no matter though, because we are discussing starting batteries.. and we would like to think that if we had a decent sort of vehicle the battery would never get down below the twenty-five percent discharge that the manufacturers say doesn't qualify as any discharge cycle.. I'm a mechanic and was taught about batteries and trained in their care, and I've worked on thousands of machines and diagnosed hundreds of charging and battery problems, I've been off grid using batteries for power for.. er.. about thirty-eight years.. How far beyond the internet does your education and experience with batteries go Randy ?

You didn't get that graph, or information from a battery manufacturer, now did you Randy... But it came from the internet and so must be right eh..

Jack the wheel off the ground and put a block of wood real close to the tyre and then see if the gap changes as you turn the wheel.. You'll only be able to check from knob to knob but it might show up an out of round or a bulge. Try the same thing at both sides to check for side bulges.

Sounds like you have a dead battery. You could disconnecting the quad battery, then try only using the jumper battery to see if it will start and run it. If that gets it going then you need to check your charging system. There are service manuals here.. up the top of the page, "more", then "service manuals", then "suzuki"...

That's right GW.. But Randy, just about everything you said about lithium is exactly the opposite of correct.

Is this it... https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1006793/Hisun-Hs500utv.html

Ok.. I found the dealers site... so you'd better give us a bit more info.. is it side by side or two wheels or quad.. Does it have a model name or designation ?

Is it one of these... https://www.manualslib.com/2/2015+massimo+500.html If it is, is the dash flashing trouble codes at you ? Is your's called an alligator ?

Are you sure it's meant to have power to it all the time ? Does it perhaps have a permanent earth ? Some engines have power going to the injector all the time the key is on, and then the ecu earths the injector momentarily when they want it to inject. Other systems though have a permanent earth, and then the ecu sends a momentary voltage to the injector when they want it to inject. Perhaps this is one of the latter.. Do you have the service manual for this thing ? And.. what is a massimo ? Is that a make, or a model of quad ? Is it a quad ? haha.. I've never heard of that before.

I agree, Yuasa batteries are good. A quick google of... "yuasa batteries america", tells me they are still being made in America. That said, if it's anything like here there's nothing to stop somebody importing a cheap yausa from some third world country where the batteries are made to a budget, and selling them in America.. Those might not be up to scratch.. We get cheap stuff here from reputable American brands, that are made for poorer markets and don't have all the features or quality built in that we might expect.

Ha.. wise guy.. I see.

B.O.B ? Not sure what that is Mate... But bigger.. yeah definitely..

I think around here, in N.Z, most people would expect to get six years out of their battery. I've noticed before though that in some makes, the N.Z versions get bigger batteries and different charging systems than the Yanky versions.. That might be the explanation.. though, you guys also get harsher climatic conditions in places than we do, and sound like you park your bikes up for part of the year, which wouldn't often happen here. Cold is hard on batteries, and the cure for it, stronger acid, isn't conducive to long life either. Parking up without an occasional trickle charge isn't good for batteries either. I've always wondered why we get bigger batteries.. Perhaps it's just better economics to replace small batteries if they are going to die anyway, so pragmatic to have small ones.. Haha.. Bad luck Randy.. Us Kiwis have got bigger ones !!

Some of those things are a bit hard to test if the four wheels working. You should read the service manual. They only actually engage the front wheels if there is slippage, as soon as the traction is regained they disengage themselves automatically. Just pushing the button doesn't mean they are necessarily going to engage four wheel drive. In the case of the breaking axles, and the grabbing of the steering, I'd suspect a faulty cv or universal.

Yeah I thought that might be the case.. I'd only been interested in the bigger storage batteries. Nobody's said yet what the best brand is though.. Anyone ? For house batteries, these trojans I have now are the best batteries I've had.. For cars and bikes(since trojan don't do them), I've always liked Yuasa batteries. I've seen them in cars years old, and they seem to do well in bikes and quads.

If you go to the Trojan site Gw, they have lots of info.. At the top of the page there are "technical support", and "resources". The white papers are detailed.

Interesting about the wire cables there Ironworker.. Nylon does stretch and deteriorate in sunlight, but many of the new synthetics are uv resistant and very non stretch. They use synthetic cable for some yacht standing rigging these days..

Yeah ok.. I was generalizing about the fires not being able to be put out.. They are much harder to put out. Almost impossible if they are big batteries such as we have in electric vehicles or houses. Recycling.. I don't think that's common yet, not here at least. Lead is easy to recycle and is going on all over the world. Lead batteries are just so robust, they can handle misuse so much better, with far less risk of disaster. In the alternative living world, for off grid power supplies, lithium is being sold by idiots that cant interpret graphs or manufacturers data, with disastrous results. I suspect that their use in the auto industry as starter batteries is much the same.. We really don't need light weight batteries. We seldom need to take our batteries down to twenty percent charge. Charging regulation does go bad sometimes. Fires in batteries destroy entire vehicles.

Oh ok.. so what's the problem with dirt on the synthetic Dave.. abrasion ? And yeah, steel cable whips and does a lot of damage in a line.. chain bunches up and becomes a cannonball and just hits one small target.. but it hits it hard.

None of the battery types like sitting flat. They all need to be recharged fully after every discharge if you want them to last. Lithium does produce usable power down to a lower state of charge than lead, but then they just need more charging to get them back up again.. Handy I suppose if you run out of fuel or flood your bike and have to crank for an age to get it started, but for the money, and their dislike of low temperatures, and general frailty if you do take them below eighty percent discharged, I prefer lead.. It's the robust one that can take the abuse.. it's proven. Lithium is a dirty material, environmentally unfriendly, and best left to light weight applications in my opinion. Phones, laptops etc... Flooded lead are the most tolerant of abuse, then AGM, then gel, and lithium are really quite fussy despite their seeming advantages. The literature is all out there.. I've been living off grid for four decades and have a lot of experience with batteries.. Oh, and lithium, start fires and can't be put out..